Honda Trail 125 Forum
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2023 Honda Trail 181 shown
- Thread starter STUBBORN
- Start date
STUBBORN
Active member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2021
- Messages
- 219
Wayne Strickland on Instagram: "Daytona crash guards. I like"
154 likes, 13 comments - speedshop_wayneAugust 24, 2022 on : "Daytona crash guards. I like"
www.instagram.com
m in sc
Well-known member
Just an aftermarket BBK.
Kev250R
Well-known member
If I'm not mistaken the '23 Trail's will have a five-speed transmission and slightly different gearing (front sprocket size) all of which contribute to a (slightly) higher top-speed. There's a thread on another site which is dedicated to Trail's where people are talking about it. For me a five-speed transmssion might be enough to get me to upgrade, though I doubt supply will be rising and I'm sure that the Dealer's will be wanting to mark-up the new models as well.
bigcanoe
Member
Yep, I will get in line for a 5 speed with a little more power.
The light blue bike pictured is Wayne's, it's a very custom build.
STUBBORN
Active member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2021
- Messages
- 219
Please specify what other site?
m in sc
Well-known member
gearing isn't the issue for top speed, its the HP. or lack thereof. MOST of that is in the ecu, and primarily on this bike, in the ignition curve. You change the timing and fueling and you will get much better performance out of it. .02
Kev250R
Well-known member
The thread is ~500 pages long (it's basically one thread about the CT as opposed to a forum). Details on the updated CT are on some of the more recent posts.
Kev250R
Well-known member
Except for the change in gearing, addition of a fifth gear and an updated engine design (supposedly it's the 'new' engine which Honda is now using in it's other mini-moto's). I think it will be a good thing for this model as a lot of the classified ad's I read, people state one of the reasons for selling their bike is the lack of power/speed. That's why the PO of my bike sold it; he moved from a rural area to a very populated one, surronded by roads which have high speed limits (and people driving faster then those limits) so he sold it and bought something larger. For me I'm happy to truck or trailer my Trail (gives me a chance to use my evil Friction Straps LOL) to most of the places where I ride it so the lack of power isn't such a concern, but for many people it is.
Just my .03
m in sc
Well-known member
I agree, they (honda) really should do something to at least comfortably maintain 60-65 stock, not a big ask IMHO. However, they can't keep up with demand, so where's the incentive? Kawasaki brought out the Z125, stock to stock a better performing bike than the grom and no one cared for them.
That's been the main complaint since 2014 on this engine & derivatives. rumors of a faster 125 motor, or a bigger one 'coming out soon' have been circulating for as long as well. My '14 grom, stock, would just hit 62 (gps, speedo indicated 64) wide open flatland before I modified it, literally, to death. Aftermarket 5 speeds have been around since '15. So also, nothing new there either.
I ride the trail mostly, ie all the time, in town, and I can cruise nicely at 55-58 now. I modded mine primarily to get passing power and torque, and it worked great, but am resisting going any further on the engine mods, IE: standalone ecu. That's all it would take IMHO to get a comfortable reliable 70 mph out of it with a small big bore. The new 5 speed groms with minor mods (not big bore) and an exhaust can hit a legit 70, so the potential is there in typical honda fashion.
.02
That's been the main complaint since 2014 on this engine & derivatives. rumors of a faster 125 motor, or a bigger one 'coming out soon' have been circulating for as long as well. My '14 grom, stock, would just hit 62 (gps, speedo indicated 64) wide open flatland before I modified it, literally, to death. Aftermarket 5 speeds have been around since '15. So also, nothing new there either.
I ride the trail mostly, ie all the time, in town, and I can cruise nicely at 55-58 now. I modded mine primarily to get passing power and torque, and it worked great, but am resisting going any further on the engine mods, IE: standalone ecu. That's all it would take IMHO to get a comfortable reliable 70 mph out of it with a small big bore. The new 5 speed groms with minor mods (not big bore) and an exhaust can hit a legit 70, so the potential is there in typical honda fashion.
.02
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Wayne posts a lot on Instagram. Look up Waynes speed shop. Talented guy out of Georgia. He will build one for you but obviously its pricy.
RubyRed
Member
People are so funny with their machines. They always want more. More power. More speed. More gears. All that equates to more money. Then they complain the cost went up. No one should ever buy a Trail 125 thinking it’s a powerhouse. Be happy Honda brought it back at all.
That's at the core of what the Honda CT is in my opinion. A dealer in Idaho took the Honda Cub that was built as a city commuter, and turned it into an outdoorsman's adventure bike suitable for regular use in rural Idaho (is that redundant? 
). Building, modifying, and customizing motorcycles is a large part of the hobby, folks often want something more suited to their needs and desires, even if it's not practical or just something to look at as being unique. It's not everyone's cup of tea, nor is it always economical. Much of Honda's success, same as other manufacturers, is due to that interest. Honda did it themselves when they evolved all the previous iterations of the Cub and CT into the more powerful, higher top speed, and with more gears Honda Trail 125 we have today.
). Building, modifying, and customizing motorcycles is a large part of the hobby, folks often want something more suited to their needs and desires, even if it's not practical or just something to look at as being unique. It's not everyone's cup of tea, nor is it always economical. Much of Honda's success, same as other manufacturers, is due to that interest. Honda did it themselves when they evolved all the previous iterations of the Cub and CT into the more powerful, higher top speed, and with more gears Honda Trail 125 we have today.
Kev250R
Well-known member
If you think people like to mod Small-Bore Honda's, don't ever buy a Tacoma P/U LOL! I own one and am amazed by the pile of mods some people do to those trucks almost on day one! Although I come from the custom car world so I get wanting to make something your own and to that end my Tacoma is slightly different then stock, but just enough to make it more useful to me off-road and for traveling. Mine may in-fact be the only Tacoma in So.Cal. without 'Ditch Lights' mounted in front of it's windshield
RubyRed
Member
I do totally get making something your own. I come from the Wrangler world and own a Rubicon. I can’t think of a vehicle more customizable than that and I do appreciate the ability to do so. Adding things like bumpers or lights are one thing but what gets me is when people change the core of the vehicle. I’m not saying anyone on this forum does this kind of thing but it drives me nuts when people flash the ECU, throw on a cheap lift and 37s and every piece of junk they can and then complain that factory parts didn’t hold up. Shocked Jeep didn’t make a better product. I know it’s everyone’s own personal decision but I guess I’m more of a purist with machines when it comes to the bones of the machine. I believe engines, transmissions and suspension were chosen and paired for a reason. Screwing with this is asking for trouble and people should be surprised when it fails. I grew up driving a stock CJ7 and a stock CT110. Now I’ve got a stock Rubicon and a stock Trail 125. HahahahaIf you think people like to mod Small-Bore Honda's, don't ever buy a Tacoma P/U LOL! I own one and am amazed by the pile of mods some people do to those trucks almost on day one! Although I come from the custom car world so I get wanting to make something your own and to that end my Tacoma is slightly different then stock, but just enough to make it more useful to me off-road and for traveling. Mine may in-fact be the only Tacoma in So.Cal. without 'Ditch Lights' mounted in front of it's windshield
Kev250R
Well-known member
Yep, that's exactly what I'm talking about!
m in sc
Well-known member
its anything you want it to be.
Just depends on the determination... skill set, or wallet, or both.
my grom. went from a new stocker, to a 1704v head with lots of custom stuff that would do 98mph, to a 250cc 2 stroke. Im not joking, the best configuration is a 250 2t as its super useable. top speed is now 85-88 mph wrung out, but its super 'real world' useable.
2 stroke motor (lt250R)
sooooo.... it can be whatever you want it to be to suit your needs. BUT.. it needs to be done correctly, which is where most fail by cutting corners, intentionally or not.
I am resisting the urge to swap the harness on the CT and go bonkers with the performance mods as i still have lots of the 4 stroke stuff leftover.
and.. the current trail platform is a derivative of the MSX (grom), tot he super cubs.. to the trails. the 125 supercubs were patent applied for IN 2014, same year the groms were released, even though the 110s were out for a while.
just fyi.
Just depends on the determination... skill set, or wallet, or both.
my grom. went from a new stocker, to a 1704v head with lots of custom stuff that would do 98mph, to a 250cc 2 stroke. Im not joking, the best configuration is a 250 2t as its super useable. top speed is now 85-88 mph wrung out, but its super 'real world' useable.
2 stroke motor (lt250R)
sooooo.... it can be whatever you want it to be to suit your needs.
BUT.. it needs to be done correctly, which is where most fail by cutting corners, intentionally or not.I am resisting the urge to swap the harness on the CT and go bonkers with the performance mods as i still have lots of the 4 stroke stuff leftover.
and.. the current trail platform is a derivative of the MSX (grom), tot he super cubs.. to the trails. the 125 supercubs were patent applied for IN 2014, same year the groms were released, even though the 110s were out for a while.
just fyi.
Manufacturers sometimes get drivetrain combinations wrong too, it's just a big deal when they do. Like the short lived Peugeot 5-speed behind the torquey Jeep 4.0L that had a tendency to stretch the trans case and unmesh the gears.
Many modern motorcycles run better and more reliably with a tune. They aren't always engineered for the emissions restrictions that they may face in certain regions or years later into their production, so to comply with those emissions they get retrofit with a tune that's a little lean which results in more heat and wear.
Everything is definitely a balance though, you can only upgrade so much before you have to upgrade just about everything. For example if this 181cc build is still running the stock clutch shoes and springs in the centrifugal clutch that's going to be a bad time with clutch slippage down the road if anyone ever rides it hard enough to actually make use of the extra power the engine has.
Many modern motorcycles run better and more reliably with a tune. They aren't always engineered for the emissions restrictions that they may face in certain regions or years later into their production, so to comply with those emissions they get retrofit with a tune that's a little lean which results in more heat and wear.
Everything is definitely a balance though, you can only upgrade so much before you have to upgrade just about everything. For example if this 181cc build is still running the stock clutch shoes and springs in the centrifugal clutch that's going to be a bad time with clutch slippage down the road if anyone ever rides it hard enough to actually make use of the extra power the engine has.
m in sc
Well-known member
its a good point about the clutch. if i were to swap anything over to a bigger bore, id def change to a manual clutch. hell, i can slip mine now w the 143 if i really rail on it from 1-2