What's new
Honda Trail 125 Forum

Welcome to the Honda Trail 125 Forum! We are an enthusiast forum for the Trail 125, Hunter Cub, CT125 or whatever it's called in your country. Feel free to join up and help us build an information resources for this motorcycle. Register a free account today to become a member. Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Honda back at it again with a new contender

dmonkey

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 4, 2021
Messages
2,131
Location
🇺🇸
I prefer the Dax ST125 looks over the Monkey 125. I liked the old Z50A Monkeys but the new ones are an awkward scale of a much smaller bike enlarged for 125cc adult size, and the updates like the air box make it look a bit too plastic to me. This Dax looks truer to the original aesthetic, the right size, and it comes better equipped for 2-up riding than any of the other mini motos. Downside is it has a 4-speed while the newer Monkey has a 5-speed. From our CT125s it's apparent that the large gap between 3rd and 4th stinks when you're trying to climb a hill at speed, and the 5-speed helps by having that in-between gear. Here's hoping they make their way to North America at some point.
 

SneakyDingo

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2021
Messages
1,560
On one hand: Yay, new motorcycle

On the other: y'all better not be taking away from the production output of the CT125's when you have people waitlisted well into 2023 for 2021 bikes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tim

dmonkey

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 4, 2021
Messages
2,131
Location
🇺🇸
The 125cc platform and its corresponding components are already proven so hashing out a new bike with it is very low cost compared to doing R&D and then producing a new platform. The 125 makes sufficient power and speed for most common uses of a mini moto. And the big one: insurance and registration, most countries have engine displacement tiers for insurance and registration where bikes under 50cc or 125cc see the most economical benefits and younger riders (16yrs+) are able to more easily obtain a license or permit for starting on a smaller class of motorcycle.
 

m in sc

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2021
Messages
2,434
Location
Rockhill, SC
with the demand already generated and not slowing down...... why would they? Suzuki did the vanvan200 for example..., didn't sell well. .02 same w the retro SR400 from yamaha a few yrs ago.
 
Joined
Nov 27, 2021
Messages
52
The other factor to consider is that almost nobody is doing r&d for any new gas motors of any kind. Were entering an age now where manufacturers are just going to continue to put existing (sometimes really old, like the ninja 650 twin) motors into all new bikes with minor tweaks at best. All r&d is moving toward electrics and alternative fuels (if you're ducati). If you see a genuinely new gas motor for a street bike over the next 10 years it'll be surprising honestly. So, I said all that to say don't hold your breath for anything that doesn't already exist motorwise.
 

SneakyDingo

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2021
Messages
1,560
The 125cc platform and its corresponding components are already proven so hashing out a new bike with it is very low cost compared to doing R&D and then producing a new platform. The 125 makes sufficient power and speed for most common uses of a mini moto. And the big one: insurance and registration, most countries have engine displacement tiers for insurance and registration where bikes under 50cc or 125cc see the most economical benefits and younger riders (16yrs+) are able to more easily obtain a license or permit for starting on a smaller class of motorcycle.
  • When you've already tooled and set up equipment to manufacture these engines en masse, you can produce them faster, easier, and with more accuracy. Recalls can also be more easily tooled and resolved too.
  • There's also the Brussels effect, where standardization to the strictest level will yield lower R&D, engineering costs down the line, and simplifies movement of vehicles between different jurisdictions. We are especially made aware of this with recall notifications for things like reflectors.
  • Legally speaking, I mentioned this before - like dmonkey says, licensing of a 125cc or smaller vehicle is a special classification across several countries. Being mindful that the exact displacement of the bike is quoted as something like 124.87cc, under 125cc can be ridden without a motorcycle specific license using a B-class license in the EU; in Cambodia no license is required, in Japan a Kogata license will be sufficient (up to 50 km/h or 31 mph), and an A1 license in Vietnam for below 175cc.
  • Also by using certain kinds of standardization, you only have to go through some paperwork once. There's some flexibility in this rule and also some nuances. Since the Dax is pretty close to the Supercub in many ways, I would not be surprised if they were able to use this in many countries.

I think @Misterprofessionality also has a pretty good case to make; again leaning on the Brussels effect and looking towards Canada, we're going to see manufacturers doing what they can to get bikes in markets they can, for as long as they can, with as little loss from R&D as they can. In general for the EU that means eco friendly bikes, which generally won't be running on gasoline. Who knows, maybe the electric Cub will ride again one day.
 

m in sc

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2021
Messages
2,434
Location
Rockhill, SC
its true. look how many models are based on the fz09 platform or the H2 platform now? plenty. It really makes a lot of sense.
 

AZ7000'

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2021
Messages
957
May I introduce you to the CRF300L and CRF300L Rally? :cool:
Ummmm, no. I have friends that spent $1000’s trying to get the suspension to work any better then a pogo stick. They do look cool though. Buy the x versions imho. Anyone but red has sweet real 250 fi models. And you can plate anything in AZ…. Wife’s te250 2T has a plate and we ride to the trail heads in town.
 

dmonkey

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 4, 2021
Messages
2,131
Location
🇺🇸
The other factor to consider is that almost nobody is doing r&d for any new gas motors of any kind. Were entering an age now where manufacturers are just going to continue to put existing (sometimes really old, like the ninja 650 twin) motors into all new bikes with minor tweaks at best. All r&d is moving toward electrics and alternative fuels (if you're ducati). If you see a genuinely new gas motor for a street bike over the next 10 years it'll be surprising honestly. So, I said all that to say don't hold your breath for anything that doesn't already exist motorwise.
There's still plenty of R&D being done on gas engines, just in parallel with the electric and alt fuels. Companies are also getting their EV tech through partnerships, mergers, acquisitions, and hand-me-downs from the bigger budget R&D of their parent companies or divisions that make 4-wheeled autos. The Grom just had minor engine updates, Ducati's V4 Granturismo engine is recent and can be called a "new" engine depending on your definition of new, BMW have their R1300GS that will likely be released soon, and Honda *might* be working on a new V4. Our CT125's engine is just an evolved version of something that's been around since at least the late 1950s, so it's hard for one engine to ever really be something "new" and not just a redesign or evolution of something that has already been made.

Ummmm, no. I have friends that spent $1000’s trying to get the suspension to work any better then a pogo stick. They do look cool though. Buy the x versions imho. Anyone but red has sweet real 250 fi models. And you can plate anything in AZ…. Wife’s te250 2T has a plate and we ride to the trail heads in town.
Depends on what type of riding you're doing with it. IMO the CRF300L suspension is still much better than the TW200 and CT125, all are severely under sprung. They're adequate for fire roads, slower single track use, etc. The CRF300L, especially the Rally with better wind protection, more seat cushion, and bar end weights, shines in that it suitable for that type of riding in addition to cruising all day with reasonable comfort pegged at its max speed of 80mph on the highway. It is bad that they went with Showa suspension and still didn't end up with something better than what it's got for offroad use though. For something more trail and single track focused it's not the best pick, especially without aftermarket suspension upgrades, but if you're looking for bigger and faster that is between the CT125 and an adventure bike, it certainly fits the bill. Few non-premium bikes come with decent suspension so it's certainly something to budget for. Having ridden a 2017(?) TE250, my experience was that even it could use a revalve. Obviously that differs by the person and type of riding though.
 

SneakyDingo

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2021
Messages
1,560
Even though it was set up for a lighter rider, the CRF300 I swung a leg over at the dealership was pretty much perfect for answering the question of, "what if I wanted to do everything I want to do on the CT125, but faster". And yeah, it definitely had aftermarket mods that included the suspension but here's the thing... if you figure that out, especially in my case if I figured that out in one shot by looking at someone else's... then you're golden.

I'm done with freeway riding around here though. Too many life limiting factors. I got rid of my old bike partly because of those life limiting factors.

EDIT: The CRF300 was the personal bike of Tim the Salesperson, who was the one that ultimately put me on my successful purchase of the CT125 somewhere else.
 
Top