JA65 Big Bore Kit 145cc

[johnny125]

Hi all!

Not sure if this kit has been discussed to death already... i've been watching the webike site and Takegawa for the release of the JA65 145cc big bore...

https://japan.webike.net/products/25947785.html

Overall thoughts on this particular kit?

Required supporting mods, if any? Will the oem exhaust be too small or restrictive with the 145cc?

*Related to the installation of a big bore kit
The crankshaft is subjected to increased torsion and deflection due to the significant increase in engine power and torque caused by the SP Takegawa big bore kit.
SP TAKEGAWA recommends to install crankshaft support adapter at the same time to reduce the load on the crankshaft.The Crankshaft Support Adaptor adds ball bearing support to the end of the flywheel side of the crankshaft to reduce twisting and deflection and to increase the durability of the crankshaft.

^Is that a must do upgrade?


Also, regarding installation.. does anyone have a link to installation instructions and any info on what specialty tools would be required for a bbk installation on the trail-ct-huntercub-125? Thoughts on the install's overall complexity? I am mechanically inclined but have not built or rebuilt engines.

TBH Id rather not do the installation myself but the local (to me) power sports dealer probably wont want to take on this type of job or fiddle with the FI-CON TYPE-X and its supporting app...

Thanks

 

[dmonkey]

The crankshaft support is very easy to install, I wouldn't shy away from it. I don't see a larger injector listed in the kit, so that's something else you'll likely want to add.
For the tune, you should reach out to Takegawa and confirm if the FI-Con works on top of the USA ECM for the JA65. Some folks here gave it a try with that JA55 and couldn't get it dialed in right. Ideally you would bring it to a shop that can tune it on a dyno for you. For other makes it's more common for shops to do performance work like that, but Honda Powersports dealers typically don't. For 145cc you might be able to get away with the EFIE mod. Another option to consider is an ARacer RC MiniX standalone ECU which can be paired with the AF2 for autotune capability, it's just a pricey setup.

Where about are you located?

 

[johnny125]

Thank you for the information and ideas. That's a good point about confirming compatibility with the USA ECM. Im located on the Big island of Hawaii, makes for limited tuner shop options.

 

[JPMcGraw]

Im going to throw in my FI-con personal experience. You will have to disassemble just about every body part, and move the gas tank to the side. Its a project but not too too terrible. The MAPs that takegawa provides are good as far as my butt can tell. The only problem i had that made me uninstall it was every so often it seemed like the device lost power or reset randomly while i was riding. Id be putting along and the engine felt like it cut out for 1 or 2 cycles. It didn't feel dangerous but ya know. I went with the EFIE after that. WAY less trouble to install and i have had 0 cutouts since. The power delivery is much smoother too.

So my vote is for EFIE over the FI-Con. If we ever get an unlocked ECM then thats where im going next. Also yes definitely get a bigger injector. A genuine honda PCX should be good enough, i think they are 130cc. I got a 155 and a 170 to play with and both of those run more than fine but the 170 makes it smell like a go-kart at idle. I use the 170 in summer because i assume that extra fuel at idle and off throttle will help cool but i really have nothing to back that claim up.

 

[m in sc]

exactly why i avoided a ficon, heard issues from way back w them being glitchy. few years on my 1st gen 143 w exhaust, intake and EIFE and PCX injector setup and really been great.

 

[dnishimoto]

Im going to throw in my FI-con personal experience. You will have to disassemble just about every body part, and move the gas tank to the side. Its a project but not too too terrible. The MAPs that takegawa provides are good as far as my butt can tell. The only problem i had that made me uninstall it was every so often it seemed like the device lost power or reset randomly while i was riding. Id be putting along and the engine felt like it cut out for 1 or 2 cycles. It didn't feel dangerous but ya know. I went with the EFIE after that. WAY less trouble to install and i have had 0 cutouts since. The power delivery is much smoother too.

So my vote is for EFIE over the FI-Con. If we ever get an unlocked ECM then thats where im going next. Also yes definitely get a bigger injector. A genuine honda PCX should be good enough, i think they are 130cc. I got a 155 and a 170 to play with and both of those run more than fine but the 170 makes it smell like a go-kart at idle. I use the 170 in summer because i assume that extra fuel at idle and off throttle will help cool but i really have nothing to back that claim up.

I am running the Kitaco 145 with a aftermarket exhaust I have tried using the Honda PCX 155cc fuel injector but the idle is rough and cycles in rev up and down. When I put the stock I ran this for over 500 miles hoping the ecm would adjust but no change. When I went back to the stock fuel injector, it runs fine and I think it accelerates better. I know it is probably running lean. Does your bigger fuel injectors surge? Will there be an issue with running the stock injector.

 

[JPMcGraw]

i have 0 surge on the (possibly fake) PCX, 155cc, or 170cc

 

[johnny125]

Well.. I figured id throw some updated thoughts out.

I haven't purchased a bb yet, but did add a yoshimura magnum gp exhaust, and a takegawa panel air filter.. its running supper lean by the looks of the spark plug, I think i may have hurt the motor yesterday because of it, loss of power after a long wot run, bike feels down on power now.

Ordered a pcx150 fuel injector from Honda today, leaning twards the kitaco 145 bb and cam. Still on the fence with fuel control, efei device or a racer min x with af2, anyone know if there is a ja65 compatible a-racer part? The few posts of people with them seem to be ja55 bikes, is the 22+grom a-racer the ecu that would work? I emailed the a-racer manufacture and they never responded lol.

 

[johnny125]

Fun bunch of parts ordered today,

• KITACO 145cc LIGHT Big Bore Kit , Item number[212-1452060]
• SP TAKEGAWA Super Cam Chain Tensioner Item number[01-14-0013]
• SP TAKEGAWA Crankshaft Support Adapter Item number[01-10-0150]
• KITACO Super Oil Pump Kit Item number[331-1452000]
• NGK Standard Plug CR9E 6263 [Stock Number] 6263 (is this the right cr9e plug to use?)
• KITACO Tappet Adjustment Wrench Item number[674-0900240]
• random gaskets

Also in an effort to be cheap, going to try the eagle research efie, ordered.

The plan is 145cc bbk with genuine pcx150 injector, efie set to 250mv, cr9e spark plug, takegawa panel air filter, Yoshimura exhaust, Kitaco oil cooler plumed into the cylinder ports rather than valve cover. any suggestions from there?

 

[JPMcGraw]

You won't be disappointed with the EFIE. I seriously doubt the gains you get from the Aracer w/ autotune compared to the EFIE would be worth the $700 extra.

 

[johnny125]

You won't be disappointed with the EFIE. I seriously doubt the gains you get from the Aracer w/ autotune compared to the EFIE would be worth the $700 extra.

Thanks, thats good to hear. Honestly I'm not really interested in making max power or being on the ragged edge of performance, just want it to be reliable and something i don't have to fiddle with.

 

[johnny125]

exactly why i avoided a ficon, heard issues from way back w them being glitchy. few years on my 1st gen 143 w exhaust, intake and EIFE and PCX injector setup and really been great.

I saw you mentioned the pcx150 injector duty cycle couldn't keep up on a long wot run, causing the four point piston failure.. do you have an injector size/brand that you feel would have been correct for the 143 setup? My apologies if you already outlined this, i appreciate your insight & help.

 

[JPMcGraw]

I went off what Yuminashi suggested and used 155cc as my baseline. So far so good. I just do short trips to places near my house and ride my dog around the neighborhood so im not exactly stressing it.

 

[m in sc]

the ones im running is the 1.6 type from webike, https://japan.webike.net/products/24067601.html

the 1.9 was a tad much. I bought both just fyi. im sure it will work with a 145 and does well on my 164.

 

[johnny125]

the ones im running is the 1.6 type from webike, https://japan.webike.net/products/24067601.html

the 1.9 was a tad much. I bought both just fyi. im sure it will work with a 145 and does well on my 164.

Thank you! I was looking at the Kitaco injectors. So you would go with a 1.6x for the 145BB over their 1.3x version?

 

[m in sc]

my suggestion, get both. try the bigger one 1st. if it pulls well up top wot after a few miles, you're good. if it goes flat wot, it's too rich . keep in mind, I have a cam, bigger throttle body and full exhaust.. so the 1.3 may be ok. or even the pcx150.

 

[johnny125]

The Japanese Santa dropped a load off yesterday... Kitaco 145 BBK & supporting mods,



The cr9e spark plug i got has an electrod tip that is more recessed than the oem plug, my bike came with the heat range 7 as standard..

I put the new plug in for a quick test, the bike idled and ran fine with the cr9e, it sounded a bit smoother.. (could be placebo) after about 15miles of ridding the top speed was only about 55, was previously getting 62 as a top.
Pulled it to check fowling and it was white, bike is still running very hot. Amazing how just changing the air filter and exhaust will cause these to run so lean.


When the pcx150 injector arrives, im going to try it along with everything ells the same (stock plug, exhaust, air filter) before adding the BB, see if the plug will show a change in fuel/carbon.

 

[m in sc]

it will take many miles to show, just fyi.

 

[johnny125]

Slowly making progress..

Got the Kitaco 25% + oil pump installed, took me a bit to figure out how the clutch ingagment thing went back together as it came apart when I took off the right side cover off . For those wondering about the kitaco brand re using the stock oil pump gear, the caniblization/ parts swap was super easy, worth saving the $10 from the tekagawa up rated pre assembled one imo.

Went tearing into body work to check on the ecu/ecm to reference the pin style and oddly the connection pins were wet, some blue corrosion starting.. not sure how water could have gotten in there.. dryed it off and put things back together, the power loss issues (from stock) I was experiencing is now resolved, and its back.. the water must have been shorting something out.. as such I more than likely did not cook the stock piston from running lean as previously thought but will find out for sure when i get around to the kitaco 145 install.

lastly, I order the Aracer mini x with af2 thing… so that should be fun. Decided to skip the efei route as it would have caused me mechanical ocd anxiety.. im weird like that. I will be smothering the new ecm pins in dielectric grease... unless thats not advisable.

 

[dmonkey]

I would keep the dielectric grease away from the pins/contacts themselves for that type of connection, but there is a rubbery weather seal around the ECM and it shouldn't hurt to apply it there same as you might to the inner boot on other wiring plugs.