What do you think of the bike now?

[Msfitoy]

143, pcx15o injector, eife. under 500 bucks & easy.

Sounds like you've done this? If so, do you have a how to and source list?

 

[Farmer Mike]

Not sure it’s that simple, but maybe. Complexity also seems drift in now that there are different engines. I’m game to do this or have this done on my little green donkey. I have never made a video before and I lack the experience of many here… in terms of engine building… but I am somewhat mechanical, so color me interested. The end result has to be bulletproof though, or at least that would be the goal. My desire would be rock steady reliability.

 

[JPMcGraw]

im going to +1 the 143, EFIE, and bigger injector. best bang for the buck out of all the engine mods i did. The 250mv on the EFIE got me pretty close to 12.5afr @ WOT.

Don't worry about being an engine builder, you are more than capable if you can assemble Ikea furniture.

 

[m in sc]

should work on either IF the bbk is available on the 2nd gen..., and it is. yes, i've done it. been messing w these motors since the 1st gen grom. have a few thousand miles on my 143. still tempted to do a 181 and go hog wild but, no.

 

[AZ7000']

should work on either IF the bbk is available on the 2nd gen..., and it is. yes, i've done it. been messing w these motors since the 1st gen grom. have a few thousand miles on my 143. still tempted to do a 181 and go hog wild but, no.

How would just those do without the header and pipe work you have done?

 

[m in sc]

its still an improvement for sure. i did do that at 1st

 

[dmonkey]

If you do want to pursue a BBK, they are available for both the JA55 and JA65. You will just need to buy the kit for the right generation of engine as they're not interchangeable. The JA65 (Euro-5) engine has closer head stud spacing that limits how large of a bigger bore can be run on it, I think 149cc is the largest kit on the market for that, while kits for the earlier engine go much larger.

BBK for the JA65

Reports from Thailand indicate the availability of 145cc conversion from Kitaco - about $200 locally

hondatrail125.com

 

[Daytripper]

So yesterday my new bike rolled over 300 miles and decided to open it up past 35 mph for the first time. I got up to 52 and it didn't seem to have much left to give my 230 pounds of dead weight. I forgot to check my little "tiny tach" but the limit I felt I was seeing wasn't for engine lack of HP, but gearing. So if that is true, and these engines are bumping up against the rev limiters or just past their power band then if the goal of more CC's is more speed on the highway, they will probably need to gear up the sprockets some. I felt that my bike wouldn't have done much different with a lighter rider. It was at the high end of its power curve, and wasn't going to go any faster in its current sprocket configuration even with a 181cc kit. Pulling hills would be another story entirely of course.

I would probably want to gear my bike up if top speed on flat ground was that important but not at the price of an even higher first gear. It is why I wish Honda had given this bike a 5th gear. A little higher top end gear AND a little lower first. But I am not sure Honda wants us to be riding these motorcycles that fast. To me, reliability is king, and higher speeds are lesser so. To me, it is not a long distance highway motorcycle, and I don't even like riding long distances on highways anyway. I have owned bigger bikes, BMW's and such in the past and it seems no matter what bike I am on, I start to get cramped up after an hour or so. With the Trail, and a motorcycle carrier for my truck, the only long distance highway I will be taking my Trail on will be on the carrier on the front of my nice comfortable pickup truck.

 

[m in sc]

yeah.. its not a gearing issue, its a HP/tune issue. i have stock gearing in mine still & can get 10mph more w the improvements. the tune is the stupid restricted ecu they put in it. fwiw the bbk (not mentioned) also needs a cam. you aren't going to go faster than 64-65 wout a stand alone ecm or a piggyback. this has been discussed ad-nauesum in the BBK thread.

 

[Newfie]

I was reading my earlier post at 380 miles. I've now turned 1000 miles. I am a LOT more comfortable on this bike. I am totally in tune with it now. If I have ANY kind of an errand I can run that fits in a backpack I take it. I need to put a cargo box on the back. I've considered delivering pizzas on it. Have fun riding AND make some extra $$$. This is 110% a FUN, FUN bike. I think a mistake many make is getting it and judging it too soon. It takes a while to realize it's potential. At least it did for me. It's a part of my family now!

My Trail is my main summer transportation. Today I had to get an inspection sticker 30 miles away. Decided to take gravel logging roads on my way back. Took an hour but I stopped to watch a big bull moose feed. This bike makes me smile. My wife and I like to drive deep into our huge timberlands up here and camp overnight and fish. She has a TW200

 

[George]

After owning it for 2 seasons, I like it. It has many pros, but also major disadvantages.

Pros:
Light, light, lightweight
Kick start means you never have to worry about a dead battery.
Simple and reliable.
From my subjective aesthetic, it looks good
The wheels are not small, which means there is some off-road capability. Enough to handle rural roads.

Cons:
The headlight is very weak, which is not a problem if you don't ride it at night. But it is very dangerous if you ride it in traffic at night. But, but, all motorcycles are not safe at night.

The 9 horsepower engine is too weak. This's 2024, and the new metal processing technology, why can't a motorcycle of this weight withstand a 200cc engine? And the braking ability?

Braking, very poor. This little thing has a poor emergency brake if you are going at full speed.

The appearance is not attractive to ordinary people, and many people will think it is an electric bicycle. Not a good thing in traffic

The 4-speed transmission is very unsuitable for traffic lights and city traffic. I don't know how to express it, but those who have ridden it will understand..

Summary: If I lived in 1965, This thing is my baby, it can handle most uses. But in 2024-2025, the streets will be full of trucks, electric cars, construction trucks, transport trucks, and crazy people who smoked marijuana.
This motorcycle is not suitable for expressways, rural roads, highways, and 9 horsepower is not suitable for single-track roads. Except for buying groceries in the community, I really don’t know where to ride it.

 

[bumberson1]

After owning it for 2 seasons, I like it. It has many pros, but also major disadvantages.

Pros:
Light, light, lightweight
Kick start means you never have to worry about a dead battery.
Simple and reliable.
From my subjective aesthetic, it looks good
The wheels are not small, which means there is some off-road capability. Enough to handle rural roads.

Cons:
The headlight is very weak, which is not a problem if you don't ride it at night. But it is very dangerous if you ride it in traffic at night. But, but, all motorcycles are not safe at night.

The 9 horsepower engine is too weak. This's 2024, and the new metal processing technology, why can't a motorcycle of this weight withstand a 200cc engine? And the braking ability?

Braking, very poor. This little thing has a poor emergency brake if you are going at full speed.

The appearance is not attractive to ordinary people, and many people will think it is an electric bicycle. Not a good thing in traffic

The 4-speed transmission is very unsuitable for traffic lights and city traffic. I don't know how to express it, but those who have ridden it will understand..

Summary: If I lived in 1965, This thing is my baby, it can handle most uses. But in 2024-2025, the streets will be full of trucks, electric cars, construction trucks, transport trucks, and crazy people who smoked marijuana.
This motorcycle is not suitable for expressways, rural roads, highways, and 9 horsepower is not suitable for single-track roads. Except for buying groceries in the community, I really don’t know where to ride it.

I must agree that the 9 HP just isn't enough. I need to get on 65 mph highways to get to where I want to ride, but the trail is really only good for 45-50 mph consistently (unless your going downhill with a tail wind). I'm still keeping it because it's fun and cheap to maintain. I've since acquired a Svartpilen 401 which is what I ride 99% of the time now. My Trail 125 will always be there for a reliable backup bike though.

 

[Daytripper]

After owning it for 2 seasons, I like it. It has many pros, but also major disadvantages.

Pros:
Light, light, lightweight
Kick start means you never have to worry about a dead battery.
Simple and reliable.
From my subjective aesthetic, it looks good
The wheels are not small, which means there is some off-road capability. Enough to handle rural roads.

Cons:
The headlight is very weak, which is not a problem if you don't ride it at night. But it is very dangerous if you ride it in traffic at night. But, but, all motorcycles are not safe at night.

The 9 horsepower engine is too weak. This's 2024, and the new metal processing technology, why can't a motorcycle of this weight withstand a 200cc engine? And the braking ability?

Braking, very poor. This little thing has a poor emergency brake if you are going at full speed.

The appearance is not attractive to ordinary people, and many people will think it is an electric bicycle. Not a good thing in traffic

The 4-speed transmission is very unsuitable for traffic lights and city traffic. I don't know how to express it, but those who have ridden it will understand..

Summary: If I lived in 1965, This thing is my baby, it can handle most uses. But in 2024-2025, the streets will be full of trucks, electric cars, construction trucks, transport trucks, and crazy people who smoked marijuana.
This motorcycle is not suitable for expressways, rural roads, highways, and 9 horsepower is not suitable for single-track roads. Except for buying groceries in the community, I really don’t know where to ride it.

I must agree that the 9 HP just isn't enough. I need to get on 65 mph highways to get to where I want to ride, but the trail is really only good for 45-50 mph consistently (unless your going downhill with a tail wind). I'm still keeping it because it's fun and cheap to maintain. I've since acquired a Svartpilen 401 which is what I ride 99% of the time now. My Trail 125 will always be there for a reliable backup bike though.

Yes it is underpowered for many situations. For those riding conditions I would not use a Trail. If you put a 200cc engine in it, tuned for emissions, safety etc etc it probably wouldn't be a Trail anymore. Of course a way around that is with the bored out engine kits and more aggressive cams etc, but I think if I needed more power I would just buy a 200cc bike and be done with it.

 

[Newfie]

I have had my Trail for over 2 years now and even rode it last winter. All I know is that at almost 80 years young, I grin like a fool when I am on it. That wipes out all the cons for me.

 

[FizzBuzz3000]

The 9 horsepower engine is too weak. This's 2024, and the new metal processing technology, why can't a motorcycle of this weight withstand a 200cc engine? And the braking ability?

Braking, very poor. This little thing has a poor emergency brake if you are going at full speed.

Honestly, the 9HP is enough. It handles riding on rural county roads quite well. Sure, it'd be better if it could go 60mph, but is it needed? I really don't think so, the bike is not meant to be a fast one. It's a minimoto, after-all. Yes you will have to pull over from time-to-time to prevent traffic build-up... But in my experience I rarely have to do that, I just move to the edge of the road signal the driver when it's good to pass and they go on their day. And with a ~3.00 gear ratio, my bike can jam down any gravel road/trail I throw at it! 40-45mph is more than fast enough on such roads so you can "float" on the gravel and not wipe out. This bike does its job well and quite frankly, I think more people buying the trail (outside of nostalgia) want something akin to the ADV150 or better, but don't want to buy it since it has "scooter" associated with it. I do wish more people would appreciate for that the trail is and not for what it isn't.

And in regards to breaking power, I'm curious to see how the trail's breaking system is weak. I have chirped the rear tire before on accident and that was just the rear. the front ABS system, which a bit sensitive at time, is still really solid and has helped me stop in pretty short distances. Maybe you were going faster than what the breaking system is intended for, but who knows. I don't know how you ride.

 

[TRF90]

After owning it for 2 seasons, I like it. It has many pros, but also major disadvantages.

Pros:
Light, light, lightweight
Kick start means you never have to worry about a dead battery.
Simple and reliable.
From my subjective aesthetic, it looks good
The wheels are not small, which means there is some off-road capability. Enough to handle rural roads.

Cons:
The headlight is very weak, which is not a problem if you don't ride it at night. But it is very dangerous if you ride it in traffic at night. But, but, all motorcycles are not safe at night.

The 9 horsepower engine is too weak. This's 2024, and the new metal processing technology, why can't a motorcycle of this weight withstand a 200cc engine? And the braking ability?

Braking, very poor. This little thing has a poor emergency brake if you are going at full speed.

The appearance is not attractive to ordinary people, and many people will think it is an electric bicycle. Not a good thing in traffic

The 4-speed transmission is very unsuitable for traffic lights and city traffic. I don't know how to express it, but those who have ridden it will understand..

Summary: If I lived in 1965, This thing is my baby, it can handle most uses. But in 2024-2025, the streets will be full of trucks, electric cars, construction trucks, transport trucks, and crazy people who smoked marijuana.
This motorcycle is not suitable for expressways, rural roads, highways, and 9 horsepower is not suitable for single-track roads. Except for buying groceries in the community, I really don’t know where to ride it.

Happiness with the bike has a lot to do with the roads you ride. Works fine here in rural Texas, but I stay off the divided highways. Not bad offroad, but it demands a casual attitude and speed. Just the ticket for a lot of older riders.

 

[dmonkey]

Same as any new bike, mine had poor brakes when new. Once the pads and rotors bedded in, they stop great and there's good control between applying the brakes to a certain threshold and either engaging the front ABS or locking the rear tire, at which point it's a tire traction issue more than it is a braking issue. I will say that braking performance was decreased with knobby tires, in part due to the tires, but also the ABS had more noticeable interruptions where I suspect the small different in tire circumference may have made the ABS system less effective than it is with stock tires. At some point I may pick up one of those speedometer and ABS healer devices to fine tune correcting the vehicle speed and see if that cures it.

 

[George]

express

Honestly, the 9HP is enough. It handles riding on rural county roads quite well. Sure, it'd be better if it could go 60mph, but is it needed? I really don't think so, the bike is not meant to be a fast one. It's a minimoto, after-all. Yes you will have to pull over from time-to-time to prevent traffic build-up... But in my experience I rarely have to do that, I just move to the edge of the road signal the driver when it's good to pass and they go on their day. And with a ~3.00 gear ratio, my bike can jam down any gravel road/trail I throw at it! 40-45mph is more than fast enough on such roads so you can "float" on the gravel and not wipe out. This bike does its job well and quite frankly, I think more people buying the trail (outside of nostalgia) want something akin to the ADV150 or better, but don't want to buy it since it has "scooter" associated with it. I do wish more people would appreciate for that the trail is and not for what it isn't.

And in regards to breaking power, I'm curious to see how the trail's breaking system is weak. I have chirped the rear tire before on accident and that was just the rear. the front ABS system, which a bit sensitive at time, is still really solid and has helped me stop in pretty short distances. Maybe you were going faster than what the breaking system is intended for, but who knows. I don't know how you ride.

I enjoy under 50mph (80K/h) because I can see the scenery and it is safer. I hope to drive on country roads as much as possible. But people in my area of Canada are used to driving at +10 k/h, and they will drive at least 55mph at 50mph zoon. Once go uphill, CT becomes a tractor on the road. The shoulders here are not very wide, and ditches on both sides of the 3ft shoulder. If there is a construction vehicle behind me, will become a terrifying journey.
Maybe the country roads in the western United States have wider and smoother shoulders.

Small motorcycles, small brake pads, narrow tires,50mph , that's how it is. If a 1800cc motorcycle is moving at full speed, emergency braking will same difficult. It's just that this little motorcycle is often forced to run at full speed.

 

[George]

I must agree that the 9 HP just isn't enough. I need to get on 65 mph highways to get to where I want to ride, but the trail is really only good for 45-50 mph consistently (unless your going downhill with a tail wind). I'm still keeping it because it's fun and cheap to maintain. I've since acquired a Svartpilen 401 which is what I ride 99% of the time now. My Trail 125 will always be there for a reliable backup bike though.

Svartpilen 401 is very nice look bike . I've also considered. But I will never own a KTM company's motorcycle again, never. it's a nightmare.

 

[FizzBuzz3000]

But people in my area of Canada are used to driving at +10 k/h, and they will drive at least 55mph at 50mph zoom.

Yeah, that's normal here in America, it always minimum +5mph on 55mph roads (which is a majority of county roads). Despite that, I will still not go and try and keep pace, it's not worth it. It's easier for cars to pass you when there's a 20mph difference than a 10mph difference. Again this bike is best operated at ~40-45 mph. If you can't deal w/ that, I don't think the trail really is the bike for you. The trail is a slow bike and you should treat it as such. Keeping it at WOT is probably not good for the motor long-term and it prevents you from having additional throttle to escape from a bad situation.

Once go uphill, CT becomes a tractor on the road.

I've largely solved this issue with the aforementioned 13 front sprocket. It's pretty insane how much more power the bike has with it! Granted it goes marginally slower...

The shoulders here are not very wide, and ditches on both sides of the 3ft shoulder. If there is a construction vehicle behind me, will become a terrifying journey.

Most paved and gravel roads I ride on have no shoulders. If you need to get off to let a larger truck pass, find a driveway or field entrance. Adapt to where you ride and make it so it's safer for you and everyone else. I don't know what more there is to say. Being in constant fear while riding dampens the experience of the ride and may lead to more unsavory interactions with cagers.