Deja vu ...all over again

[ssaigol]

Hilarious news item reports Honda is developing a smart clutch that you don't need to operate with your hand.

I am wondering where I've seen that before...hmm.


https://www.visordown.com/news/industry/honda-e-clutch-motorcycles-detailed

 

[BaldRider]

Ok, Honda. Which of your motorcycles aren't fun?

Honda says the system does not require any major changes to existing engine layouts to be installed. Therefore, it says, it is planning to implement the new E-Clutch on its “fun” motorcycles “over time”.

Neither of my Honda motorcycles have a clutch lever. I don't miss it. I wonder if this is intended to replace both manual clutch and DCT to offer just one option for efficiency in manufacturing.

 

[m in sc]

what a bunch of unnecessarily added complexity.

 

[ssaigol]

All they need to do is replace the screwplate and ball triangle in the Trail125/Cub clutch with an electromagnet and there you have it: e-clutch.

 

[dmonkey]

That, though, does not mean that the clutch is beyond the control of the rider. Even in the moments where the E-Clutch is in operation, the rider can still operate the clutch in the normal way, via the clutch lever. The electronic control, though, provides “instantaneous, fine-tuned clutch control for optimum performance in situations where the driving force changes,” Honda says.

Sounds like this is for their manual bikes and the rider still uses the hand clutch. Hopefully they've designed it so it doesn't hinder feathering the clutch, that's one of the few things I've missed while riding large DCT bikes. You end up dragging the brakes instead of working the clutch for parking lot maneuvers, and on the Gold Wing the brakes are linked so it's a little bit weird. The Honda Trail is much more low speed capable and with the centrifugal clutch disengaging at low RPM I haven't missed that clutch control much at all.

 

[BaldRider]

Now I'm confused about what I read. I thought it was something like a DCT. Reading it again, it seems more like a fancy quickshifter.

Maneuvering the DCT GW slowly is tricky, for sure.

 

[dmonkey]

Yeah, that didn't make much sense to me. Now I found Honda's video for it which makes more sense. It appears to make using the hand clutch lever optional on manual motorcycles, including from a stop. Trying to achieve the best of both worlds. I think you're right, that would let them reduce the number of variations they sell (DCT & manual) of the bikes that get the e-clutch.

The video is a bit amusing, some elements of Initial D and Tron in there

Honda Previews Details of World’s First Honda E-Clutch for Motorcycles on Website | Honda Global Corporate Website

Honda Global | Honda Previews Details of World’s First Honda E-Clutch for Motorcycles on Website

global.honda

Honda E-Clutch for motorcycles | Motorcycles | Business and Innovation | Honda Global Corporate Website

Honda E-Clutch for motorcycles represents innovative technology. Open Innovation. Business and Innovation. Honda's cars, motorcycles, Power Products and other products, and Honda's innovations including advanced technologies.

global.honda

 

[Kev250R]

One of my Quads ('08 Honda 250ex) has something similar to this. Honda (at the time) called it a 'Sport Clutch'. Basically it works as a centrifcal clutch (like our Trails use) unless you want to use the Clutch. It was billed as being good for new riders which may not be ready for a true Clutch/Shift Quad at first. It seems to work well, I've had many riders out on that Quad, both experienced and newbies. I've found the experienced riders generally use the Clutch out of habit, the newer riders just ignore it. The Quad seems to be happy with either.

 

[smittyio]

They lost me at E.

 

[Cpd419]

Too high tech. My gt 9 has a quick shifter, cruise, traction control, wheelie control, heated grips, electronic suspension yada,yada,yada….I like the technology but it scares me. I’m old fangled.

 

[BaldRider]

I still want to know what Honda considers its 'fun' bikes. When we see it offered on models, it may make more sense.

 

[dmonkey]

When Honda publish the term "FUN" they usually mean the sport models rather than commuters. More detail on that terminology here:

Continue Creating Safe and Fun Motorcycles - Offering Changing Values and Timeless Attractiveness | Honda Stories | Honda Global

Continue Creating Safe and Fun Motorcycles - Offering Changing Values and Timeless Attractiveness

global.honda

 

[SneakyDingo]

Oh. I thought fun was anything that you could get airborne and still stick the landing without breaking the bike.

 

[AZ7000']

Right, who needs abs (Australia apparently), e-start, fi, smart shocks, gas gauges, tps monitor's, gps’s, opmid clusters, gear shift indicators, etc….
Things I think are useless are what people built on to their bikes that they want. Comes with ann auto clutch, convert to manual. Manual convert to auto, most all of our bikes.
If it helps then sell more bikes then sweet! I like Honda to succeed and the new stuff sometimes is pretty good!

Now get off my lawn!

 

[SneakyDingo]

Right, who needs abs (Australia apparently)

The timing of this is somewhat humorous. I have rarely engaged ABS unintentionally; the first 2 times, one of which was rolling over pinecones in my front lawn at running speed, and the other was coming to a complete stop on a wet intersection at around 3-4 mph and stopping intentionally on a metal plate. However...

On my last rainy day commute to work an idiot in a pickup pulled out in front of me, in a move that could only be described as leaving me screaming into my helmet that I wished his father had pulled out instead. This was on a very wet, 10% downhill curve at 35 mph, which isn't exactly optimal braking conditions for a moto. It was one of the few times where I wish I had dual channel ABS, as the combination of the curve and the camber of the road meant I had to brake at an angle to the bike's direction which was towards the edge of the roadway.

It was a solid case where rear wheel ABS would have made it much easier under such heavy braking to keep the bike under complete control, but something I also recognize (happily) as being a very infrequent action, something I've only had happen 4-5 times since I've owned this bike - I've done more oil changes than I have had this happen. Still, next bike will likely have that as a "must" - but also something I'll want to know how to disable.

 

[Kev250R]

The timing of this is somewhat humorous. I have rarely engaged ABS unintentionally; the first 2 times, one of which was rolling over pinecones in my front lawn at running speed, and the other was coming to a complete stop on a wet intersection at around 3-4 mph and stopping intentionally on a metal plate. However...

On my last rainy day commute to work an idiot in a pickup pulled out in front of me, in a move that could only be described as leaving me screaming into my helmet that I wished his father had pulled out instead. This was on a very wet, 10% downhill curve at 35 mph, which isn't exactly optimal braking conditions for a moto. It was one of the few times where I wish I had dual channel ABS, as the combination of the curve and the camber of the road meant I had to brake at an angle to the bike's direction which was towards the edge of the roadway.

It was a solid case where rear wheel ABS would have made it much easier under such heavy braking to keep the bike under complete control, but something I also recognize (happily) as being a very infrequent action, something I've only had happen 4-5 times since I've owned this bike - I've done more oil changes than I have had this happen. Still, next bike will likely have that as a "must" - but also something I'll want to know how to disable.

Three of my bikes have ABS (two with dual-channel; my Trail with single), though I've never engaged them intentionally, I probably should. The ABS on my '07 KTM 990 is a very early version which is known to be a bit buggy. That one I've felt engage while dragging the rear brake (slightly) to slow-down to allow merging traffic to enter on a smooth roadway. The first time it happened I thought the rear brake pedal was falling-off! It's an easy system to turn-off, there's a large button between the Speedometer and the Tach. My Uncle was the PO of this particular bike and must have been greatly annoyed by the ABS because when I got the bike, that button was basically worn-out from use LOL!

 

[m in sc]

 

[SneakyDingo]

Yup. "You can achieve very nearly the best stopping distance with ABS" and that ABS prioritizes control over stopping distance. I was fine this time and didn't need rear wheel ABS (didn't need front either tbh). But I definitely thought of how I'd rather have gone through that and any similar scenario with it.

 

[Genx75]

Yeah, that didn't make much sense to me. Now I found Honda's video for it which makes more sense. It appears to make using the hand clutch lever optional on manual motorcycles, including from a stop. Trying to achieve the best of both worlds. I think you're right, that would let them reduce the number of variations they sell (DCT & manual) of the bikes that get the e-clutch.

The video is a bit amusing, some elements of Initial D and Tron in there

Honda Previews Details of World’s First Honda E-Clutch for Motorcycles on Website | Honda Global Corporate Website

Honda Global | Honda Previews Details of World’s First Honda E-Clutch for Motorcycles on Website

global.honda

Honda E-Clutch for motorcycles | Motorcycles | Business and Innovation | Honda Global Corporate Website

Honda E-Clutch for motorcycles represents innovative technology. Open Innovation. Business and Innovation. Honda's cars, motorcycles, Power Products and other products, and Honda's innovations including advanced technologies.

global.honda

So, when you downshift it grows flowers?

 

[dmonkey]

I still want to know what Honda considers its 'fun' bikes. When we see it offered on models, it may make more sense.

Your answer has started to arrive, the CB650R and CBR650R are now confirmed fun
"World-first technology - Honda E-Clutch - to be available on upgraded four cylinder CB650R and CBR650R middleweights"

New CB1000 Hornet, return of the CBR600RR and innovative Honda E-Clutch headline Honda’s full 24YM European line-up reveal at EICMA

Today at EICMA in Milan, Honda unveiled its full 24YM line-up, featuring four new model names, significant upgrades to a further four models - two of which will be available with a world-first motorcycle technology - and a concept version of the next all-electric vehicle destined to join Honda’s...

hondanews.eu