Honda Trail 125 Forum
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Instant regret?
- Thread starter vintagegarage
- Start date
m in sc
Well-known member
In vintage circles they are referred to as 'rivet counters' or 'manual maidens'. Usually prolific at VJMC events.
Kev250R
Well-known member
Seen that first-hand about ten years ago. My oldest bike is a '61 Honda Sports Cub 50. All original, except for the dual-sport tires I put on it so I could take it on gravel roads easier. I lost friends in the VJMC Chapter I used to belong to after that!
I have that dilemma with a Yamaha Omaha Trail 55 right now, will post about it in "Other Bikes" once it gets more squared away and there's some decent weather out to ride it. It has original tires and from what I have found they might be unique to the model and they are long since discontinued. I'll likely leave them on the bike as long as they're rideable off-road... but once they aren't it's probably going to be some Vee Rubber trials tires replacing them and the OEM ones will go on a shelf for safe keeping as the bike is so original. I own bikes to ride them, could see shifting priorities to enjoying just the show & display aspect later in life as I enjoy museums and restorations, but I also appreciate modifications that people made which make their vehicles unique and tell a story of their use and where they've been.
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Pittsburgh_Bob
Member
Let me rephrase what I meant. What irks me is when people change stuff and then complain that something else doesn't work as a result. That's all. And no, it doesn't bother me what others do with their own stuff. I'm allowed to roll my eyes! haha
Mike Morton
New member
I think a lot of those are people trying to make a buck
m in sc
Well-known member
nah. I think the ecm tune was/is so fucking dismal compared every. single. other. honda 125 platformed bike it def put a bad tastes in most peoples mouths who had at least ridden a stock grom/supercub/monkey prior. And it should have performed at least as well as a supercub 125, and it didn't. (It sure did with me, but I knew id work around it). That was probably 30% of it, the rest were speculation buyers, nostalgia buyers (born again bikers' that hadn't ridden in 20-40 yrs) , and those that realized it just really wasn't that good off road. I think that's where a good chuck of this came from, and i now think thats all over for the most part.
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Maybe when the bike was new in 2021 some people may have bought them to flip them, but with how available they are now I don't see that happening.
BaldRider
Well-known member
Except in California. People are still trying to sell them for $5-6k.
BaldRider
Well-known member
That's true. They were listing them for $7k a couple years ago. Now I think they are trying to pass the ADM off to the next buyer.
paulp78
New member
I've been riding for 20 years, sport bikes and a wr250r (with supermoto wheels often).
My dad got a Trail 125 a few months ago. He hasn't ridden in 40 years (now 64), when he was back in Poland. Watching him struggle on steeper fire roads, or mildly rocky flat areas, I thought maybe we had made a mistake getting it for him.
So I tried it out. I left it in gear longer. I gave it more throttle. I pushed myself off the seat slightly when I saw something coming. The thing is a BLAST. It can go down fire roads faster than you should be going on a fire road. I'm 6'4". Can it touch my leg with the handle bar when turned in stock form? Sure I guess, if I didn't move my leg.. Could I easily get bar risers or rotate the bars and be perfectly fine? For sure.
I think some people haven't mastered the art of riding a slow bike fast, and sell it before they do.
My dad needs to relearn and desensitize to the noise and rpm and ring that thing out a bit more. He needs to relearn a lot of balance and riding skills so the short wheel base doesn't effect him. On one ride he asked me "How do you avoid all the rocks and uneven spots so well?" I said "Avoid them? I'm not even looking forwards most of the time, Im watching you in the side mirror! I just trust that the bike and let it do whatever it wants over small obstacles." (I'm doing these rides on my 17" sport tires nn the supermoto wheels with the wr250r so going slow with him is more fun for me) I think some of the people sell it before they learn how to ride a more twitchy (throttle and steering) bike.
Also, its possible some people don't care to configure/optimize the bike and also sell soon. Is the gearing ideal for most anything other than beach towns? Not really IMO. Are the tires good for dirt? No really. Is the snatchy throttle easy to deal with if you haven't adjusted the slack? Not really.
But Ive also owned a WR250R since the hype years. I think its a GREAT bike. Yet the gearing was useless for single track. The tires sucked. The power was supposedly low so everyone on earth got an exhaust, a fuel tuner, and deleted some flap in the intake. The stock bars were a joke. Way too cramped to stand for a tall person. Clutch pull so hard it hurts my large and IMO fairly strong hands.
Every bike needs to be customized to make you love it. (Ok maybe other than my 06 Yamaha R1) I think a lot of people are selling without really making it theirs (other than tons of racks?).
There were tons of people that eventually disliked the WR250R saying it was a great dualsport for mild trails, and great for fireroads, and did the freeway just fine for short bursts, but.... of course wasn't good for the next thing: adventure touring. Everyone is always trying to stretch a bike to the next thing while not wanting to compromise any comfort.. even though the thing that makes it not perfect for that next task make it amazing for everything else more mild than that. The Trail 125 carries its weight so well its easy to move and pickup. Its easy to step over/get on. Its easy to touch the ground. Its easy to deal with at lights in busy traffic. Those are big advantages for anyone that cares about those things. If you didn't care about those... I'm not exactly sure why you'd get one in the first place. For all we know the people that sell the trail 125 will just sell the next bike too until they find their perfect goldilocks.
My dad got a Trail 125 a few months ago. He hasn't ridden in 40 years (now 64), when he was back in Poland. Watching him struggle on steeper fire roads, or mildly rocky flat areas, I thought maybe we had made a mistake getting it for him.
So I tried it out. I left it in gear longer. I gave it more throttle. I pushed myself off the seat slightly when I saw something coming. The thing is a BLAST. It can go down fire roads faster than you should be going on a fire road. I'm 6'4". Can it touch my leg with the handle bar when turned in stock form? Sure I guess, if I didn't move my leg.. Could I easily get bar risers or rotate the bars and be perfectly fine? For sure.
I think some people haven't mastered the art of riding a slow bike fast, and sell it before they do.
My dad needs to relearn and desensitize to the noise and rpm and ring that thing out a bit more. He needs to relearn a lot of balance and riding skills so the short wheel base doesn't effect him. On one ride he asked me "How do you avoid all the rocks and uneven spots so well?" I said "Avoid them? I'm not even looking forwards most of the time, Im watching you in the side mirror! I just trust that the bike and let it do whatever it wants over small obstacles." (I'm doing these rides on my 17" sport tires nn the supermoto wheels with the wr250r so going slow with him is more fun for me) I think some of the people sell it before they learn how to ride a more twitchy (throttle and steering) bike.
Also, its possible some people don't care to configure/optimize the bike and also sell soon. Is the gearing ideal for most anything other than beach towns? Not really IMO. Are the tires good for dirt? No really. Is the snatchy throttle easy to deal with if you haven't adjusted the slack? Not really.
But Ive also owned a WR250R since the hype years. I think its a GREAT bike. Yet the gearing was useless for single track. The tires sucked. The power was supposedly low so everyone on earth got an exhaust, a fuel tuner, and deleted some flap in the intake. The stock bars were a joke. Way too cramped to stand for a tall person. Clutch pull so hard it hurts my large and IMO fairly strong hands.
Every bike needs to be customized to make you love it. (Ok maybe other than my 06 Yamaha R1) I think a lot of people are selling without really making it theirs (other than tons of racks?).
There were tons of people that eventually disliked the WR250R saying it was a great dualsport for mild trails, and great for fireroads, and did the freeway just fine for short bursts, but.... of course wasn't good for the next thing: adventure touring. Everyone is always trying to stretch a bike to the next thing while not wanting to compromise any comfort.. even though the thing that makes it not perfect for that next task make it amazing for everything else more mild than that. The Trail 125 carries its weight so well its easy to move and pickup. Its easy to step over/get on. Its easy to touch the ground. Its easy to deal with at lights in busy traffic. Those are big advantages for anyone that cares about those things. If you didn't care about those... I'm not exactly sure why you'd get one in the first place. For all we know the people that sell the trail 125 will just sell the next bike too until they find their perfect goldilocks.
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Daytripper
Well-known member
And for many, having to learn how to ride a slow bike slow. That doesn't sound quite as fun as it actually is, at least for me. I had a Bultaco trials bike back in the 70's for a little while, and there is what riding a slow bike slow is all about. Of course the Trail 125 isn't a trials bike. For one, you don't generally ride a Trail 125 standing up, and doesn't have the massive low end torque, but riding slow, not having to mess with a clutch and not having to worry about stalling the engine does at least give a hint to the abilities of a trials bike. The Trail balances pretty well I think. I am always practicing how slow I can go without putting a leg down. At a stop sign, around the yard. How tight of a turning radius can I do with feet on the pegs. I think it helps me out on a rough trail.
I still am running my bike with stock tires and 14T sprocket but when I do get a chance I am going for the 13T and Shinko SR241 trials tires and go have some fun. I have been hearing from a few of the locals that there is a trail I need to go check out that goes up on top of a mountain and supposedly you can ride up to a glacier, or maybe you have to hike it a bit. It is steep going tho so I want to be geared down and have the best tires I have.
Your post was beautifully stated BTW! There is no ONE motorcycle that will do it all. The best ones only will do one or 2 things well and more or less suck (or compromise) at the rest. The Trail actually has a fairly wide range of things that it does acceptably. Could it have better suspension, yes. Does it need 8 inches of travel? If you want to go fast over rough terrain, I suppose, but it will be harder to straddle and touch the ground. In fact many of the so called major improvements comes at a cost of something. I do plan on some of these improvements for next year, the forks, rear shocks etc but I want to wait and get more experience with the bike to find out what is best for how I use it first.
MessyBiz82
New member
I want to preface this post by saying that I grew up in Colorado riding dirt bikes, and I had a CT90 which I rode frequently. We camped in the mountains ALOT and the 'ol 90 was used primarily for offroad trail riding and I will say ... sometimes in some very rough conditions. The bike could always handle anything we threw at it. Steep grades at high elevations in particular, and always set to "low" in the transmission gearing selector.
As an adult, I had the opportunity to acquire two 1982 CT110's back in 2018. I even drove all the way to Tuscon, Arizona to pick them up. The bikes were owned by a retired Honda mechanic that spent his career lovingly working on these bikes, learning them inside and out. Both of my CT110's have been an absolute delight to own, I ride them frequently. They picked up where my childhood CT90 left off, and are arguably more capable (the extra 20 cc's extra isnt much - but I've noticed it do better in some situations than the 90 would have). Again, I want to state that most of my driving with these bikes is offroad, steep, conditions, and in the "low" gear setting.
Now, to get to the crux of this post! I've had my eye on the new CT125's ever since they came out. I was so excited that I almost bought one immediately - sight unseen. But then I heard that Honda did not retain the dual transmission switch in the new design. My heart sank, and I decided to hold off with the hope that they might re-intruduce it in a subsequent release (or hear compelling evidence that the offroad performance would be "as good" or "better" without it). At the time of this posting, the Turmeric Yellow 2024 model is out, and still does not have the dual transmission switch...
So, I recently had a trip planned to go offroading with my CT110. Somewhere I've been before that I knew would be difficult; steep terrain, high elevation - a place that I KNEW my CT110 could handle without breaking a sweat. I had the opportunity to rent a 2022 CT125 from a rider share website, so I thought "What the hell ... I'll try it out". I rented the bike for two days and took it to two different sites. Aesthetically speaking, I loved the bike. Honda did an excellent job with the details to make a contemporary version of a legendary classic. But the performance of the bike was a whole different story. The first day told me everything I needed to know. So much so, that I almost didn't use it the second day. I was so dissapointed with it that I even almost went home the first day and got my CT110...
For me and how I ride, without the dual transmission switch this bike just does not compare to the older CT90/110's and it never will. It was so utterly dissapointing. There were several instances where I had to get off the bike and walk it up the mountain because it just couldn't muster the torque. Unfortunately the extra power, and fuel injection mean nothing to me without the ability to change my gearing.
HONDA, if you are reading this: PUT THE DUAL TRANSMISSION SWITCH BACK ON THE BIKE!!! If you do, then and only then, you may have my money and I will gladly get one of these bikes! You have so many loyal followers of these bikes that got a giant slap in the face when you designed an almost perfect contemporary version of arguably the most popular mini bike in the world. FIX THIS OVERSIGHT NOW, and the CT125 may still have a chance of being just as (if not more) successful than the originals.
As an adult, I had the opportunity to acquire two 1982 CT110's back in 2018. I even drove all the way to Tuscon, Arizona to pick them up. The bikes were owned by a retired Honda mechanic that spent his career lovingly working on these bikes, learning them inside and out. Both of my CT110's have been an absolute delight to own, I ride them frequently. They picked up where my childhood CT90 left off, and are arguably more capable (the extra 20 cc's extra isnt much - but I've noticed it do better in some situations than the 90 would have). Again, I want to state that most of my driving with these bikes is offroad, steep, conditions, and in the "low" gear setting.
Now, to get to the crux of this post! I've had my eye on the new CT125's ever since they came out. I was so excited that I almost bought one immediately - sight unseen. But then I heard that Honda did not retain the dual transmission switch in the new design. My heart sank, and I decided to hold off with the hope that they might re-intruduce it in a subsequent release (or hear compelling evidence that the offroad performance would be "as good" or "better" without it). At the time of this posting, the Turmeric Yellow 2024 model is out, and still does not have the dual transmission switch...
So, I recently had a trip planned to go offroading with my CT110. Somewhere I've been before that I knew would be difficult; steep terrain, high elevation - a place that I KNEW my CT110 could handle without breaking a sweat. I had the opportunity to rent a 2022 CT125 from a rider share website, so I thought "What the hell ... I'll try it out". I rented the bike for two days and took it to two different sites. Aesthetically speaking, I loved the bike. Honda did an excellent job with the details to make a contemporary version of a legendary classic. But the performance of the bike was a whole different story. The first day told me everything I needed to know. So much so, that I almost didn't use it the second day. I was so dissapointed with it that I even almost went home the first day and got my CT110...
For me and how I ride, without the dual transmission switch this bike just does not compare to the older CT90/110's and it never will. It was so utterly dissapointing. There were several instances where I had to get off the bike and walk it up the mountain because it just couldn't muster the torque. Unfortunately the extra power, and fuel injection mean nothing to me without the ability to change my gearing.
HONDA, if you are reading this: PUT THE DUAL TRANSMISSION SWITCH BACK ON THE BIKE!!! If you do, then and only then, you may have my money and I will gladly get one of these bikes! You have so many loyal followers of these bikes that got a giant slap in the face when you designed an almost perfect contemporary version of arguably the most popular mini bike in the world. FIX THIS OVERSIGHT NOW, and the CT125 may still have a chance of being just as (if not more) successful than the originals.
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m in sc
Well-known member
never going to happen. its a tarted up super cub.
Daytripper
Well-known member
The switch would be nice, as would an additional low first gear (made into a 5 speed transmission). All we have now that can make the Trail 125 geared lower are sprockets. I have dropped a tooth on the front with noticeable improvement. Now to add teeth to the rear. If I were to be using mine only off road I would do this but currently it has been about 95% on pavement.
MessyBiz82
New member
Unfortunately, another fault in the design of the CT125 is that the speedometer is linked with the small sprocket and so any change to the gearing will make the speedo reading inaccurate. Oh, Honda... what were you thinking...
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Daytripper
Well-known member
I could live with that. I was thinking the other day how the earliest Trail 90's had 2 rear sprockets. I don't recall how they worked, if you had to carry a longer chain or what. I wonder why an aftermarket dual sprocket mod couldn't work on the 125. Both high and low sprockets would be attached together on the rear wheel. Have the chain sized for the large sprocket, and have a idler sprocket on a lever (or perhaps a spring like serpentine belts have) for highway use with the street sprocket. When changing the bike sprockets from high to low or visa versa, flip the idler sprocket down, loosen the axle, then slide it all the way forward and slip the chain on the other sprocket. The idler would allow some extra slack in the chain to do this. I know it is a bit of a hack, but if someone worked out the engineering I would definitely go for it.
But as is, I still think this bike has some things going for it that make it pretty useful on a difficult trail. A big rack is standard, and you can put a tent, camping gear, even a rifle in a scabbard on the handlebar or fishing gear. With the auto clutch, it is fairly easy to get off in the really bad places and walk it through without having to feather a manual clutch. Of course if you are trying to go through muck, sand etc, there still would be difficulties.
For me, I think I am eventually going to try to gear mine down some more. Need to find what rear sprocket options that will work with my OEM chain and 13T front. I live on a 35 mph road so I don't need the bike to do much past 40 so would basically sacrifice higher speed for more 1st gear pull.
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The speedometer is not cable drive but uses a pickup sensor at the countershaft, which is used to compare rear wheel speed with front wheel speed for the front ABS. There are speedo healer devices you can buy to compensate for sprocket changes. Personally I'll take it over a cable drive out of ease of maintenance and reliability, but I agree it would have been nice if the front wheel speed was used by speedo/odo instead so only tire size would be relevant and not gearing. That likely goes back to the Trail not being a new creation, but a bike based on the same drivetrain as the other non-trail mini motos, and before they had front ABS.