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Need advice on second rear tire flat/non-puncture

Gene56

Active member
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
107
Just had a second rear tire flat within 4 months. Unable to find a puncture. I'm thinking it may be the valve stem separating from the tube? I'm in Honolulu, Hawaii. Temperature is 80 - 85 degress F, street riding, around 1500, about 30 minute ride, max speed 45 MPH. Rear tire just went flat as I was on my street about 20 feet from my driveway. Had checked the tire pressure earler, rear was around 32-34 PSI and front around 25-27, used the gauge on the air hose at the gas station. The first rear flat was a similar situation except it was in the morning with temperatures in the 70's F. For the first flat I took the rear wheel off and took it to the dealer to change out ($90.00). The dealer was unable to determine the exact cause and did not indicate if the valve seperated from the tube.
Any thoughts or ideas...
 

SneakyDingo

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Joined
Aug 6, 2021
Messages
633
The tire casing on most motorcycle tires is fairly thick but it's not impenetrable. Hawaii gets fairly frequent rain, which is a blessing and a curse - it tends to wash stuff off the roadway, but it also lubricates them as they penetrate the tire casing. I've referred to this bike as a big bicycle a few times, might be time to pull the tires off and examine the casing like you would a bicycle. On bicycles, sometimes you'll find the rim has small sharp bits or pointy bits facing inwards that eventually puncture a tire.

Dealers aren't as motivated as you are to find punctures, flats, etc. - they're on the clock and will assume whatever it is that punctured your tire fell out. You aren't though, so you can take your time and do extra checks. If you did find the hole in the casing, you can use a tubeless tire plug kit to plug it too before you put the tire case back on, and if you found a hole in the tube, you can use that to determine roughly where the puncture occurred on the casing as long as you remember the orientation of the tire to the tube before you started (take a photo).

Unfortunately tubed tires are more likely to get punctures than tubeless tires. I don't know how much I like this idea since it will create more work and guarantee that you will annoy someone (yourself, the mechanic, etc.) but one potential option is to remove the valve core, add a little bit of slime sealant to the tube, and put the valve core back in and inflate it. Spin the tire a few times, if it doesn't seal the tube it will make a bit of mess and show you where the hole is.
 

Kritou

Active member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
139
Like others I have gone tubeless with the CT as this bypasses some of the issues with tubes and allows a tyre to be plugged while staying on the bike

This is the quick and inexpensive “ghetto” method used commonly in SE Asia and the MTB world

 

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Gene56

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Jul 27, 2021
Messages
107
Is it too late to ask the dealer for the old tube so you can examine it yourself?
Yes, the first flat the mechanic did not keep the tube. I Will ask them to save it on this flat, it just happened yesterday.
 

Gene56

Active member
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
107
The tire casing on most motorcycle tires is fairly thick but it's not impenetrable. Hawaii gets fairly frequent rain, which is a blessing and a curse - it tends to wash stuff off the roadway, but it also lubricates them as they penetrate the tire casing. I've referred to this bike as a big bicycle a few times, might be time to pull the tires off and examine the casing like you would a bicycle. On bicycles, sometimes you'll find the rim has small sharp bits or pointy bits facing inwards that eventually puncture a tire.

Dealers aren't as motivated as you are to find punctures, flats, etc. - they're on the clock and will assume whatever it is that punctured your tire fell out. You aren't though, so you can take your time and do extra checks. If you did find the hole in the casing, you can use a tubeless tire plug kit to plug it too before you put the tire case back on, and if you found a hole in the tube, you can use that to determine roughly where the puncture occurred on the casing as long as you remember the orientation of the tire to the tube before you started (take a photo).

Unfortunately tubed tires are more likely to get punctures than tubeless tires. I don't know how much I like this idea since it will create more work and guarantee that you will annoy someone (yourself, the mechanic, etc.) but one potential option is to remove the valve core, add a little bit of slime sealant to the tube, and put the valve core back in and inflate it. Spin the tire a few times, if it doesn't seal the tube it will make a bit of mess and show you where the hole is.
Thanks for the advice, I will try that today, I road bike and have had a few flats from thorns, and its easy to check the inside of the tire for any intrusion/debris. It is easy to remove the rear wheel, but unfortunately, I don't have the proper tire levers to remove the tire, so for now I will have to take it to the dealer.
 

Gene56

Active member
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
107
Like others I have gone tubeless with the CT as this bypasses some of the issues with tubes and allows a tyre to be plugged while staying on the bike

This is the quick and inexpensive “ghetto” method used commonly in SE Asia and the MTB world

Thats a great idea, tubeless tires would be much easer to deal with, just plug it!
 

m in sc

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Joined
Feb 2, 2021
Messages
1,015
Location
Rockhill, SC
Unfortunately tubed tires are more likely to get punctures than tubeless tires. I don't know how much I like this idea since it will create more work and guarantee that you will annoy someone (yourself, the mechanic, etc.) but one potential option is to remove the valve core, add a little bit of slime sealant to the tube, and put the valve core back in and inflate it. Spin the tire a few times, if it doesn't seal the tube it will make a bit of mess and show you where the hole is.

ive had way, way more punctures on tubeless tires than tubed ones on the road over 30 yrs. TBH, i think i've only ever had 4 tubed tire flats, while out, ever. that's across 100? or so bikes most of them with spoked wheels. just get a good, quality name brand tube (not some amazon garbage for others reading this) and maybe check or spoke issues, or the rim strip .

another thing, verify the valve core is tight. I've seen shops leave them loose before. (the inner part of the Schrader valve).
 

Gene56

Active member
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
107
ive had way, way more punctures on tubeless tires than tubed ones on the road over 30 yrs. TBH, i think i've only ever had 4 tubed tire flats, while out, ever. that's across 100? or so bikes most of them with spoked wheels. just get a good, quality name brand tube (not some amazon garbage for others reading this) and maybe check or spoke issues, or the rim strip .

another thing, verify the valve core is tight. I've seen shops leave them loose before. (the inner part of the Schrader valve).
I've never had flats like this with other motorcycles I had, mostly tubed and one tubeless. Frustrated with whats happening!
 

SneakyDingo

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Joined
Aug 6, 2021
Messages
633
No, it is not a puncture, its like the tire suddenly went flat, thats why I think it might be an issue with the valve stem.
As you look at it run your finger around the valve stem hole on the inside of the rim as well. In the bicycle world, those rims aren't always drilled out to nice smooth holes and that can be a source of punctures.
 

Gene56

Active member
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
107
As you look at it run your finger around the valve stem hole on the inside of the rim as well. In the bicycle world, those rims aren't always drilled out to nice smooth holes and that can be a source of punctures.
Good advice, off work today so I'm taking the wheel off and will be taking the wheel and tire to the shop to change it out I will ask them to save the tube and inspect the inside of the rim and tire for any issues.
 

Gene56

Active member
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
107
IMG_1518.jpg

Aloha everyone, thanks for all of the advice! Believe we figured out what happened. So I rode my Trail 125 to work on Tuesday, about 15 mile ride, max of about 45 MPH. After work I got gas at the base gas station and checked the tire air pressure with the station air hose, front tire not to much of a problem able to get the air hose on the tire valve but it was a little off trying to connect it. The rear tire was more of a challange and the air hose did not line up with the tire valve. I must have damaged the tire needle valve causing a slow leak. I rode all the way home with a slow leak and when I was almost to my house the tire went flat. I was riding some of the way on an under inflated tire causing the tube to slip and seperate at the valve from the tube. No puncture. I took my wheel and tire to a small independent motorcycle repair shop, The owner/mechanic (very nice and knowledgable) replaced the the tube, and inspected the tire right away for me. He indicated the needle valve was slightly bent and pulled out enough to slowly leak and he feels that is what caused the tube to slip and the valve to seperate and cause the flat.
Lesson Learned, be careful putting air in your tires. Best part he only charged me $60.00 and took the time to inspect the tire and explain what caused the flat.
 

AZ7000'

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Jan 28, 2021
Messages
621
I personally never tighten the nut against the rim so if it shifts I can hopefully air down and realign the stem... In the dirt bike world I believe the wisdom is to use the nut to get air into it then back it off.
 

Kev250R

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Joined
May 25, 2022
Messages
123
I personally never tighten the nut against the rim so if it shifts I can hopefully air down and realign the stem... In the dirt bike world I believe the wisdom is to use the nut to get air into it then back it off.
This. On my bikes which use tubes we do this. I'm undecided if I'm going to convert my Trail to tubeless or not but it is something I'm considering.
 

AZ7000'

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Jan 28, 2021
Messages
621
Googling seems to show it as controversial as what oil should I use. I’m on team don’t tighten, the downside to tightening it is it can rip the Stem off the tube, the picture posted seems to show exactly that…

I did read just today rim lock tighten against the rim, no rim lock then against the valve cap. My 10’s of thousands of Baja miles when I ran tubes say do not tighten against the rim. Ymmv
 
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