Battery and tender recommendations?

[Farmer Mike]

Bosch is notorious for 1) having pretty good QC on both the chargers and batteries but 2) also being completely unhelpful if you want to mod or otherwise repair their gear. Like the Bosch batteries are not the kind that typically have fire issues; they have good chargers, good BMS's, good isolation and brick themselves out of caution for tampering. Or, if you're really unlucky, dropping them from more than about 6" high off the ground. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it's not like the cheaper Gotway / Begode configuration I have sitting in my garage. That being said - exactly the same rules as @oldskool in my house - the charging devices are right next to a double exterior door. I want to be able to toss that through the window if I need to save the house and the dogs.

Unhelpful doesn't begin to describe them! They are in my book just as bad as John Deer... and I hope they end up having to change their ways, as the "right to repair" lawsuits work themselves thru the court systems. I have 40 years in configuring parameterized software, and writing raw code, it's infuriating that I have virtually zero access to alter anything in this system. I should be able to change the charging algorithm to prioritize battery life over performance if I choose.

All my solar stuff is Victron... it's more or less open source... it's set up for the consumer to literally write code to do whatever they want... and I do. I love that stuff, and I spent hundreds of hours perfecting and tweaking the software so that my solar does exactly what I want, and I can reach out and touch it from anywhere on the planet if I choose. Not sure if the code breakers at the FBI could manage to alter anything on a Bosch E-Bike system... it's absolutely crazy, and it's hurting them as a company.

 

[dmonkey]

Honda ship a few models of internal combustion engine CRFs, including the Africa Twin, with Lithium-Ion batteries from the factory. According to the specs those batteries are LFP, but the distinction doesn't show up on the physical labeling. They use ELIIY Power brand batteries which advertise their comprehensive safety testing.

"The HY battEliiy L series achieves world-class safety that produces no fire or smoke and has no risk of thermal runaway even if punctured with a nail, crushed or overcharged."

They've even put them through the "Elvis turning off his television set" test. A major downside to these safety-touting batteries is they have a reputation of being "fragile" and simply failing without notice. The failure is often integrated fuses soldered into the Battery Management System board burning up, rather than a BMS that can be reset or fuses that can easily be replaced. That design creates a risk that some owners are going to open up the battery and replace the fuses anyway on a battery that wasn't designed to be serviced. Those OEM batteries are also priced higher for replacement than "premium" aftermarket options, so not a lot of people are likely to give the Eliiy brand batteries a second try after the first one fails.

Since our Honda Trails are not electric powered, a lot of the causes behind lithium battery fires that are common for e-mobility devices aren't as likely.

(Graphic from UL's Fire Safety Research Institute)

The "starter" battery (I know, it does more than that) shouldn't be deep cycled like an EV battery. If there isn't parasitic draw the self-discharge rate is going to be slower than an AGM battery. Like I mentioned before, I've had a Fire Power Lithium battery in my CT125 since Sept 2021 and haven't had the need to connect it to a charger. The SAE pigtail I added to it gets used to run a tire inflator. Lithium batteries are (relatively) fast charging and this bike doesn't require much battery capacity, so even with a low current charger it shouldn't take long to bring it from any recoverable voltage to 14.0-14.4V. That makes it less of an inconvenience to monitor the battery while it's charging. A lot of the risk that remains is the human factor. Buying a no-name battery, using the wrong charger or charger setting, etc. No amount of warning labels solve for that.

 

[Farmer Mike]

Honda ship a few models of internal combustion engine CRFs, including the Africa Twin, with Lithium-Ion batteries from the factory. According to the specs those batteries are LFP, but the distinction doesn't show up on the physical labeling. They use ELIIY Power brand batteries which advertise their comprehensive safety testing.

They've even put them through the "Elvis turning off his television set" test. A major downside to these safety-touting batteries is they have a reputation of being "fragile" and simply failing without notice. The failure is often integrated fuses soldered into the Battery Management System board burning up, rather than a BMS that can be reset or fuses that can easily be replaced. That design creates a risk that some owners are going to open up the battery and replace the fuses anyway on a battery that wasn't designed to be serviced. Those OEM batteries are also priced higher for replacement than "premium" aftermarket options, so not a lot of people are likely to give the Eliiy brand batteries a second try after the first one fails.

Since our Honda Trails are not electric powered, a lot of the causes behind lithium battery fires that are common for e-mobility devices aren't as likely.
View attachment 8719
(Graphic from UL's Fire Safety Research Institute)

The "starter" battery (I know, it does more than that) shouldn't be deep cycled like an EV battery. If there isn't parasitic draw the self-discharge rate is going to be slower than an AGM battery. Like I mentioned before, I've had a Fire Power Lithium battery in my CT125 since Sept 2021 and haven't had the need to connect it to a charger. The SAE pigtail I added to it gets used to run a tire inflator. Lithium batteries are (relatively) fast charging and this bike doesn't require much battery capacity, so even with a low current charger it shouldn't take long to bring it from any recoverable voltage to 14.0-14.4V. That makes it less of an inconvenience to monitor the battery while it's charging. A lot of the risk that remains is the human factor. Buying a no-name battery, using the wrong charger or charger setting, etc. No amount of warning labels solve for that.

They have ventured into Bosch territory... if a device has a fuse, it should be serviceable... if you don't have the good sense investigate why it's blown, and to replace a 30 amp fuse with a 30 amp fuse, them maybe you shouldn't be the one doing the service. But to brick something over a fuse is more or less inexcusable. Sorry astronauts, we can't bring you home, because that fuse isn't serviceable by you... tough break!