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Change of engine design- good or??

Fishwishin

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I am one of those guys that fits into the “recapturing my childhood with this bike” category. Now that I have had my ‘23 a few months I now think I am a tried and true motorcyclist :ROFLMAO:

As a kid I never gave a second thought towards the tech of these bikes. As an adult I find myself very interested in their design and “can’t kill” nature. I am curious if the changes that were introduced with the ‘23 models have deviated the engine away from the bullet proof reputation of all the models that have preceded it? Are the ‘23’s the same block and general design and just tweaked or have there been some key deviations made from the engine of yesteryear?
 

dmonkey

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The bottom end is a design that is from Honda's 110cc engines (the modern 110s such as the last Australia Post "Postie" bike the NBC110, not the single clutch and carbed ones like the CT110). They've been out longer than the CT125 has and also have been updated over the years which makes for a confusing timeline.

ENGINE / DRIVETRAIN
For 2023, the Trail125 gets the 124cc air-cooled, two-valve, overhead-camshaft, four-stroke, single-cylinder engine that the Super Cub received in 2022. Efficient, quiet, fuel-efficient and durable, the engine combines the bottom end (with redesigned crankcases) from the Japanese-market C110 with the SOHC, two-valve top end of the Grom. The engine produces useable, enjoyable power all the way through the rev range, while still offering impressive fuel economy.


Compared to its predecessor, the 2023 Trail125 is more undersquare, with a 50.0mm bore and a 63.1mm stroke, and compression ratio is 10.0:1. State-of-the-art programmed fuel injection (PGM-FI) has automatic enrichment and electronic ignition, ensuring trouble-free starting and efficient operation in every conceivable condition.


Compared to the Super Cub, the Trail125 has a longer intake and tuned exhaust for enhanced low- and midrange power, as well as a three-tooth-larger rear sprocket (38 teeth) for lower gearing—all changes that are ideal for trekking and touring on forest-service roads and trails. The airbox is designed to match the engine. It smooths airflow on the clean side of the panel-type, wet-paper filter (which has a 10,000-mile life in normal riding conditions) and—along with the connecting tube and injector position—improves driveability. Many Trail125 owners prefer to do their own maintenance, and a welcome feature is a replaceable oil filter.


While the outward appearance of the muffler (one element of the Trail125’s “mythology”) stays the same, the internals are modernized; with the gain in combustion efficiency, a single, more efficient catalyzer replaces the pair of catalyzers used with the previous exhaust. The ECU programming maximizes performance and efficiency, and the alternator output has been increased.


As before, the transmission has four speeds (with neutral at the bottom), and in true Trail125 tradition, it’s operated via an automatic centrifugal clutch, eliminating the need for a clutch lever. At standstill, the rider simply selects the gear required with the left foot lever; as the throttle is opened, the clutch operates automatically, and it continues to do so through each ratio change, up or down. A helical primary gear reduces mechanical noise. For optimum shift feel and reduced shift noise, the engine has a high-quality shift-drum bearing, shift-arm rubber, and optimized clutch-damper rubber material.

Some of the notable design improvements are the piston oil jet which should lubricate and cool better, and the added paper element oil filter. As for reliability, I haven't heard of any big issues yet. The 5-speed transmission specifically (that the CT does not get, but the Grom and Monkey do) has a common issue where 2nd gear gets cooked - so it might be a bullet dodged that the CT retains a 4-speed. Not sure if Honda have addressed that in their 2024 models yet, but once it's resolved it would certainly be nice to have the closer ratio 5 speed in the CT.

 
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m in sc

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the 'real' filter is a definite improvement, was one of th emost prevalent aftermarket upgrades done to 1st gen groms. i would def not worry about them losing any reliability overall, and TBH its probably a better overall design.
 

dmonkey

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The only real disappointments or reasons I could see for not preferring the new engine (all things pricing, availability, and model color the same) are that it is "new" and the aftermarket is still catching up to what it was for the older engine, and that the cylinder studs are closer limiting the bore size for hot rodding it. DHM have a 149cc BBK for it, Kitaco have a 145cc BBK for it. The DHM kit is the largest one I've heard of so far for the Euro-5 engine.
 

NMCoyote

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May 31, 2023
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Newer Mexico
I've had a 72, and now the 23, with a couple of TW's mixed in and I think the new one is better in most aspects both in reliability and rideability, the only thing missing is the two speed gear box, and spare fuel can. I did improve on the new model by dropping to a 13 tooth front sprocket and now it is geared properly for my use. Bottom line is "I like it a lot!"
 

m in sc

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I think the reference was from the 21-22 motor to the 23 and up motors. but yes the new ones are def an improvement over the old ones as well.
 

Fishwishin

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I think the reference was from the 21-22 motor to the 23 and up motors. but yes the new ones are def an improvement over the old ones as well.
Yes, I was referring to the differences between the 21-22's and the 23's. But now talking about the older engines was there much difference in design between the 90's, 110's and the 21-22 125's?
 

dmonkey

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The twin clutch setup in the modern 110cc and 125cc semi-auto engines is the most significant design change.
 

dmonkey

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Good point, those certainly are other major changes.
Early Trail 90 models had pushrods too, OHC came with the CM91 engine in 1966. Honda didn't really do "model years" and many motorcycles were registered and titled as the year they were bought from a dealership, so early years can be all over the place.
 
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