Gear-changing technique?

[Hansi]

Hi Guys, I've had my brand new Ct 125 for two days now, and I've only ridden it three times for about 30 minutes each time to get used to it. Having ridden motorbikes many years ago, I'm used to having my toe under the gear lever and lifting up but I'm finding the lever on my Ct very stiff... a few times I've been riding along and closed the throttle to change up into the next gear and been freewheeling along while struggling to change up, is this normal and do you think it will loosen up a bit with use? I've tried using the heel pedal instead, which works well while I'm standing still and changing from N into 1st gear, but once moving and with my foot on the peg my ankle doesn't flex (swivel) downwards enough to engage the gear... should I take my foot off the peg completely and use the ball of my foot (or toes) to push down on the heel lever? I'm interested to know if anyone else has had these problems or is it just my poor, beginner's technique? Any advice would be much appreciated. I live in the heart of busy Sydney so struggling to change gears in heavy traffic is not a nice feeling! Cheers, Hansi

 

[dmonkey]

If you're struggling to get it into gear where you think it's a mechanical limitation then you may need to adjust the auto clutch like so:

Regarding heel shifting, it is not a sport bike so I rarely have the balls of my feet on the pegs, instead I rest the arch of the boot there and to use the heel shifter I lift my left foot off the peg, slide that foot backwards a bit, and press the shift pedal down with the heel of the boot.

Many people on this forum have also chopped off the heel shifter, bent the shift lever position to suit them better, or swapped it out with an aftermarket one, so if those options are of interest to you searching the forum might give you some ideas.

 

[SneakyDingo]

+1. I recommend the auto clutch check, it's very fast to do. I found the lever stiff to actuate, which is why I use the heel shifter instead of sticking my boot under the lever.

The bike does take some getting used to, since your foot is now actuating the clutch instead of your hand. If you didn't know this already, you can think of the shift lever as performing two actions - as you press it, it's the same as if you were squeezing the clutch lever normally, and then it will shift towards the end of the press. So if you press and hold the shift lever down, that will act as if you're holding the clutch in.

I know on my old bike I developed a habit of holding the shift lever in position for a while, and on the CT125 that will be realized as the engine freewheeling until you release the lever.

 

[Hansi]

Thanks, Guys for the info... having ridden motorbikes in the past I do keep the arch of my foot on the peg, so it's from that position that I can't push down with my heel far enough, well, not without adjusting my foot. I was pleased to read that you too DMonkey have to slide your foot back a bit and that it's not just me. As for changing gear, I'm not sure if it's mechanical or not, I suspect that it's me, so I'll keep practicing to see if it improves with time. Yes, Sneaky Dingo, you have touched on my other little problem... downshifting! No problems at all with the lever as such, it's the same as any motorbike, and pressing down is easy to do. I have however read about keeping the lever pressed down to engage the clutch, etc. Shifting down is a little tricky because if you simply release the lever after selecting the next gear down the torque kicks in rather dramatically. I read that a smoother change down is possible by holding the lever down (engaging the clutch), then giving a quick rev with the throttle to bring the engine speed up to match the chosen gear, and then releasing the gear lever. I have been trying to do this but I keep forgetting and I release the lever too quickly, resulting in a massive jolt as the clutch kicks in... this technique is something that I have to practice... a lot! Thanks again guys, for your help, cheers, Hansi

 

[woops]

You might want to check the shift lever position on the input shaft. You can lift the front of the shift lever by repositioning the shift lever on the shaft. I put the ball of my foot on the peg and this allows much easer use of the heel shift lever. It took me about a 100 miles to get used to shifting with my heel, but it works great after a little practice.

 

[op46]

Ditto. Tried the moving the shifter up a notch to toe shift, didn't like, put back to factory position. Tried the rear toe shift method which was OK but still not quite right. Have Harley so am used to heel shifting up gear so I do that, especially easy with riding boots on, not so much with flat soles. Down shift is different and only used when going up hill, otherwise I wait until almost stopped and tap down to first. Use engine as brake to slow down even in 4th gear, doesn't stall like other bikes. Probably use brakes a little more than with other bikes to slow down so expect more wear there. Fun bike. I see a lot more country based on my road selection due to 55 max speed ability. Luckily we have some beautiful tree tunnel roads and creek/river run roads that are close. My access road to top of mountain/ridge where I live is one and goes past a natural stone bridge with water fall about half way up.

 

[AZ7000']

Imo it is not stiff, it is new and different, a clutch takes input, stating you need to factor in the clutch while shifting is silly, again in my opinion. I also believe it isn’t a heel shifter but a sandal, or flip flop or toe shifter. The target audience for this isn’t well kitted Americans with riding boots. It is in Asia for transportation as opposed to a “fun” bike for US, Aus, Europe.
Get on, ride it and enjoy. The technique will come, you can’t kill it

 

[m in sc]

i clicked mine adjustment up one, and i always wear riding boots. always. One drop at 50 mph shredded a boot i had but foot stayed unscathed, but to each their own. that being said, i wear a 10 1/2 sized shoe, in a riding boot with composite toes, and i can shift it just fine just using the toe part. I only ever use the heel part when im at a light and ready to go into 1st..

If you are having issues, look at your foot placement. from the clutch back its basically the same transmission as all the other current honda 4 speed minis, and works fine in its typical predictable notchy honda way. .02

 

[dmonkey]

i always wear riding boots. always.

I'll echo that. You don't hear anyone say "I regret WEARING protective gear." Here's somewhere between 45-65mph on budget touring boots that saved my feet from everything except a sprained ankle. I've since upgraded to a pair of Alpinestars Web Gore-Tex with slightly better ankle disk protection (lateral AND medial) while still being able to spend time off the bike walking in them.



Ryan from FortNine has a great visual demo on the difference between motorcycle boots and hiking boots

Even if you tell yourself the CT125 is a small and slow bike where you're not likely to get yourself into much trouble, when riding on roads it's not realistically 100% within your control where some other vehicle's bumper ends up.

 

[SneakyDingo]

My boots have enough damage on them in such a short period of time to justify wearing boots every time.

 

[Hansi]

Thanks so much guys for all your responses, it always helps to hear how others adjust to challenges while learning or getting used to something. I know we've drifted off the original subject a little bit and moved on to foot safety and the wearing of boots... I would just say that I would never consider wearing sandals or flip-flops, even though I live in Australia where the summer heat can be hot enough to almost roast you alive when wearing protective gear! I will admit that I'm wearing sturdy but flat-soled boots, so maybe I should try boots with a heel to help me stretch down on the heel-pedal more easily. I've been thinking about putting a rubber pedal cover on it, to raise the height by a centimeter, or, if all else fails, weld a centimeter thick piece of steel onto the existing notched grip, but I'll try different boots to start with... Anyway, getting back to managing a smooth downshift, I have tried the same technique as op46, slowing right down in 4th or 3rd and changing into 1st once I'm at a standstill. This works fine at lights or if I'm planning on stopping to park, etc., but sometimes in certain situations in traffic you just need to change down a gear, and quickly, so I'm trying to master the technique that I mentioned earlier... close the throttle, change down but keep the gear lever pressed down, give a quick burst on the throttle, and then release the gear lever. The few times that I've remembered to do that, the change down has been very smooth, even at speed from 4th down to 3rd. It seems to be more difficult from 2nd down to 1st because of the slower speed and the amount of torque 1st gear has, but I'll keep practicing. Last year I rode in the Distinguished Gentleman's Ride in Sydney on my Vespa, in just under 4 weeks I'm registered to ride my Ct, so I'm hoping by then to have mastered the gears enough not to embarrass myself! Thanks again for all the advice and help... all tips, techniques, and experiences are much appreciated! Cheers, Hansi

 

[m in sc]

yeah it take some getting used to. like i've said earlier, ive learned that a good rule of thumb is 10 mph and under, ok to downshift to 1st. 20 and under, ok to downshift to 2nd, etc. when i taught my wife how to ride she was downshifting too early and chirping the rear tire on her supercub.

also, you can fit an aftermarket lever that's just a 'standard' one, one for an xs650 will bolt right on, eliminates the heel shifter. you apparently have to bend it out a hair to clear everything but its an easy 10-20 minute job. .02

 

[SneakyDingo]

I would never consider wearing sandals or flip-flops, even though I live in Australia where the summer heat can be hot enough to almost roast you alive when wearing protective gear!

Getting sunburned on the top of your feet because the thongs don't block the light is a bloody painful way to experience the summer

 

[Hansi]

yeah it take some getting used to. like i've said earlier, ive learned that a good rule of thumb is 10 mph and under, ok to downshift to 1st. 20 and under, ok to downshift to 2nd, etc. when i taught my wife how to ride she was downshifting too early and chirping the rear tire on her supercub.

also, you can fit an aftermarket lever that's just a 'standard' one, one for an xs650 will bolt right on, eliminates the heel shifter. you apparently have to bend it out a hair to clear everything but its an easy 10-20 minute job. .02

Yes, I'm still experimenting... I tried boots with a heel last night, engaging 1st gear using the heel lever while stationary is okay but still couldn't get my heel down far enough to engage 2nd gear while moving. I'm going to try removing the thick rubber on the footpeg to see if lowering my whole foot will help get my heel lower for gear shifting... if that doesn't help I might do as you suggest and forget the heel lever and buy an aftermarket single toe lever to see if it makes a difference. I know it's early days for me but this wrestling with the gears is ruining what would otherwise be a very enjoyable ride... I love the bike itself though, very pleased with it...

 

[Mick In VT]

I had never used a heel shifter before, and felt really awkward locating the lever to effect a gear change. I changed the shifter position three times after my first three rides (not a difficult job but not quick because of needing to lower the footpeg assembly). Now I'm using the heel shifter for every upshift, and getting much more comfortable. Still just 144 miles on the clock. btw Yesterday was my first gas after the dealer's fill up and I managed to squeeze in 1.005 gallons for 144 miles or 143.28mpg.

 

[SneakyDingo]

I had never used a heel shifter before, and felt really awkward locating the lever to effect a gear change. I changed the shifter position three times after my first three rides (not a difficult job but not quick because of needing to lower the footpeg assembly). Now I'm using the heel shifter for every upshift, and getting much more comfortable. Still just 144 miles on the clock. btw Yesterday was my first gas after the dealer's fill up and I managed to squeeze in 1.005 gallons for 144 miles or 143.28mpg.

@calobster ^^^^ Someone got the famed 130 mpg.

 

[Hansi]

I had never used a heel shifter before, and felt really awkward locating the lever to effect a gear change. I changed the shifter position three times after my first three rides (not a difficult job but not quick because of needing to lower the footpeg assembly). Now I'm using the heel shifter for every upshift, and getting much more comfortable. Still just 144 miles on the clock. btw Yesterday was my first gas after the dealer's fill up and I managed to squeeze in 1.005 gallons for 144 miles or 143.28mpg.

Thanks Mick... yes, I think I could eventually get used to the heel-shifter if only I could reach it! Yesterday, I followed the clutch adjustment video that dmonkey posted, just in case the stiffness lifting the front part of the pedal is mechanical and not my inability. I haven't had a chance to try it out yet as it's been pouring down with rain, but I'm hoping that it might make a difference. As for the heel lever, if I could bend it up 2 or 3 cm it would be a lot easier for me to reach. Unfortunately, the steel is formed on edge and not flat, which makes it impossible to bend. If I re-position the whole arm so that the heel lever is higher, it will make the toe lever lower, which would not be ideal either... Cuban heel boots might help (haha) but I'll continue with experimenting and trying out other methods for now... I'll get it... eventually!

 

[Tjdemarco]

When I took my bike to my dealership to get my shift lever replaced per the recall they gave it back to me with the new shifter rotated back one notch. I could barely reach back far enough to heel shift it at all. I turned around before leaving the parking lot, told them the problem, and they had it back to me in 10 minutes, like it was originally. I would at least try rotating it forward and see if it's better. You can always put it back!

 

[Hansi]

When I took my bike to my dealership to get my shift lever replaced per the recall they gave it back to me with the new shifter rotated back one notch. I could barely reach back far enough to heel shift it at all. I turned around before leaving the parking lot, told them the problem, and they had it back to me in 10 minutes, like it was originally. I would at least try rotating it forward and see if it's better. You can always put it back!

Thanks for the advice T... actually, my whole approach to this problem has changed after a bit of research. When I first read a comment by AZ7000 about the shifter being a sandal or flip flop shifter I didn't take it seriously, but, after discussing this possibility with various knowledgable people and doing a bit of research of my own, it seems that this is in fact true! The name 'heel-shifter' is very misleading as, apparently, it was never intended to be used by the heel. When this type of shifter was first introduced long ago, it seems the market that Honda was aiming at was young teenagers, nipping to the beach and buzzing around town, etc. wearing casual, summer wear. The real use was lost in translation (apparently), and this was the start of the problem. The lever was intended to be pushed down by the ball of the foot and not the heel... if one is lucky enough to have perfected using the heel then that's great, but it seems that was not the original intention of the designers... way back then. This would explain the difficulty that many shoe & boot-wearing riders in other parts of the world have... think of it as a ball-of-the-foot shifter and changing gears becomes instantly easier, even wearing sandals or flip-flops! I actually don't use it all now, I only use the toe-shifter, which I prefer as it's more like the motorbikes I have ridden in the past. Cheers, Hansi

 

[Tjdemarco]

Ha! I've read that before and I can totally see it! But I find mine so comfortable that I've wondered why more bikes don't use this method. Also, with a boot on I find it difficult to get my toe under the front lever. So I figure whatever works for you, keep doing it. I am gonna try the the toe/toe shifting sometime though.