Limit Reached - Electric Motorcycle Range excuses

[BaldRider]

Long story short, Revzilla's Daily Rider a couple weeks ago had Zack Courts saying 50-70 miles of range is acceptable for a $15k motorcycle and he's bored of people talking about electric range. I watched it when it came out but then Revzilla took a clip of it and posted it on IG, reminding me how unacceptable 50 miles is. I was so irritated, I ended up ranting with another 1k words on my blog.

Is anyone else completely over downplaying how terrible electric motorcycle range is or am I just in a mood?

Edit: fixed link

 

[m in sc]

I'm not sure what he's exactly talking about, or really care, I have no desire to own an electric bike. However, friend of mine has a zero and did 300+ miles on it to the NC ,mts and back, in a day, utilizing the regenerative charging to achieve that. It is stupid quick though, like nothing i've ever ridden. I mean, if someone's willing to live w the shitty range and pay 15 k to bar hop, f-it. thats what a lot of 20-30K harleys are used for.

 

[BaldRider]

That's also the running joke with GSs where people need a $30k adventure bike to ride to Starbucks. At least with those bikes (and Harleys or whatever), you COULD do more and that's the appeal. They sell people on the idea.

My 2003 Z1k could do 0-60 in 2.8 seconds, not with me riding but the internet says it. I used to leave work and hit 70 in first gear as soon as I left the parking lot.

I want electric bikes to be good. I want to want one. We're not there yet and I'm not sure we're ever going to be.

 

[m in sc]

friend of mine has an orange one of those. they are fairly quick indeed. But, an H2 can be had for 20k and it will smoke both of them handily on the road. (1st hand experience). That being said, the quiet ride, instant smooth power delivery and just doing/riding something different and attempting to be 'good for the environment' is the draw i think, more than anything... and the slight side of smug that comes with them. lol. Different strokes i guess. But i do agree, 50-70 mile range is fucking dismal.

 

[Fishwishin]

Is anyone else completely over downplaying how terrible electric motorcycle range is or am I just in a mood?

It would be foolish to completely cast aside the benefits of electricity, I mean our household appliances depend on it right (not to mention the trolling motor on the front of my bass boat). I am pretty much done with the notion that electricity is the answer to serving the majority of our populace as the main/sole source of vehicle propulsion though. Filthy battery production, no real solution for disposal of batteries over the long term, expensive battery replacement, limited range for most vehicles, inconveniently long charging on the road and I do not believe the technology will ever be transferable to air travel or overseas travel. We just need to come to terms with internal combustion is not that bad, especially considering how clean we have made it over the past few decades.

 

[BaldRider]

friend of mine has an orange one of those. they are fairly quick indeed. But, an H2 can be had for 20k and it will smoke both of them handily on the road. (1st hand experience). That being said, the quiet ride, instant smooth power delivery and just doing/riding something different and attempting to be 'good for the environment' is the draw i think, more than anything... and the slight side of smug that comes with them. lol. Different strokes i guess. But i do agree, 50-70 mile range is fucking dismal.

I wasn't trying to imply that the Z is the fastest thing out there. Just that 'pedestrian' bikes are already stupid fast. You can also pick one up for under $3k. I sold mine a long time ago for $2500.

Actually, I just looked it up and an H2 has a 0-60 of 3.1. Technically the Z1k was quicker. Probably because of how heavy an H2 is. Point being, you don't have to go electric for insane acceleration.

 

[BaldRider]

It would be foolish to completely cast aside the benefits of electricity, I mean our household appliances depend on it right (not to mention the trolling motor on the front of my bass boat). I am pretty much done with the notion that electricity is the answer to serving the majority of our populace as the main/sole source of vehicle propulsion though. Filthy battery production, no real solution for disposal of batteries over the long term, expensive battery replacement, limited range for most vehicles, inconveniently long charging on the road and I do not believe the technology will ever be transferable to air travel or overseas travel. We just need to come to terms with internal combustion is not that bad, especially considering how clean we have made it over the past few decades.

There are a lot of problems and hurdles with transportation electrification. There will need to be more advancements if we truly expect to rely on electricity for the same type of transportation we take for granted now.

I'm just tired of making excuses or downplaying range in motorcycles. 50 miles for $15k is an embarrasment.

 

[m in sc]

reality dictates otherwise on the 0-60 times. lol. point being, if performance is your thing... and i've ridden a LOT of fast modern bikes, nothing made an impression on me more than that H2. and, it super easy to ride. for the price point, it's an absolute bargain for the performance. (he actually paid 18.3 out the door new. I know, I was there ).

Ford just announced today not perusing a few electric vehicles as of yet (pushing them back, including a truck model) and are going to launch some hybrids, which, IMHO, is the only feasible way to go at this time.

 

[BaldRider]

I've only ridden a few quick motorcycles. They were all quick enough for me and even relatively slow bikes are hampered by the skills of the rider (me). My quickest bike right now is a Goldwing which is pretty slow (4.4 0-60) by quick motorcycle standards. I have lifted the front wheel once or twice. Not far. That bike weighs 800+.

Anyway, this line of thought came from your comment that the Zero is stupid quick. Sure, it has a flat torque curve. Maybe the fact that it is quiet makes it feel like you are doing something special in acceleration. And my point was that a lot of bikes can get to 60mph in under 3 seconds. Electric bikes advertise it like they are doing something special. At some point, you are limited to the traction your tire can give you.

There are other benefits to electric motorcycles. You don't have to adjust valves or do a lot of other maintenance. You do, however, ride around on battery technology that will reduce your already limited range over time. People need to buy these overpriced bikes now so that they won't just give up on the idea. They will eventually get better. I'm not donating my money to it, though.

 

[dmonkey]

I thought he did a good job clarifying his point in the Q&A @ 31:40:

My opinion is that the current limitations seem clear and electric motorcycles are very far from competing with gas ones on price, range, or recharge rate. People who buy an electric street motorcycle are likely buying it specifically because they want an electric motorcycle to the point that they're willing to pay a lot for it and accept the limitations in favor of the EV appeal and uniqueness. Personally I'm disappointed in bikes like the S2 Del Mar as well. LiveWire came out with a lower spec bike that only does L1/L2 charging and still isn't even cost competitive with other electric motorcycles. Very on brand of them. We'll see if people buy it over the competition. If they do, I suspect the brand name and HD dealerships doing service for it are among their considerations.

 

[BaldRider]

I did watch until the end of the video and heard his comments. I'm not sure the whole 'compromises' argument sits well with me, either. He did his best to shoehorn in what I think he really wanted to say while still towing the line he was given by the people who sign his paycheck. The whole thing just rings as trying to stay on HD/LiveWire's good side.

I'm really not sure why this bothers me so much. Maybe it is because I had higher hopes for what the S2 would be. This bike is a nothingburger with extra nothing. Should I have expected more from a company that spun off from HD? Probably not. It does look cool, though. So does a Ducati 996. If I was going to have a bike I just looked at and didn't ride much, I know which one I would pick.

 

[dmonkey]

I took his final review to be that it might be a good 3rd or 4th bike, is "half way to a scooter", and that it landed at the bottom of the leader board. I would have liked to have seen it on the 2023 board because I'm interested how he would rank it against the Sondors MetaCycle. That was the most critical review I've seen of a new bike from him, and even for how critical it was he highlighted the potentially redeeming aspects. I do think he makes a point not to brutally tear into how bad a bike is in one way or another, and to not get RevZilla blacklisted from getting future loaner bikes to review. There are reviews where he talks about how something is currently a version that is making the way for a future better version... and I think that's often a hint to not buy it unless you are okay with donating money toward a better one.

I share your disappointment in that I don't think there has been much exciting progress or leaps forward in the EV street bike market, even for the niche of people who aren't put off by the idea of electric motorcycles. Zero and Energica both refreshed their models in recent years and they were pretty insignificant changes to the point where I don't even remember what they were boasting other than small changes in numbers or restyling. Cake announced like a million different variations of electric bicycles outside of their electric motorcycle line-up, and then announced their bankruptcy seemingly right after. The most exciting developments to me have been electric off-road bikes, specifically the Stark Future Varg and updated (KTM) Gas Gas TXE prototype are pretty interesting and performance competitive with ICE bikes even if they aren't price competitive.

 

[m in sc]

real world, zero to 60 means squat. roll on power and acceleration is what matters. just my opinion.

 

[CTExplorer]

That's range on a brand new battery too. Cycle it hard and charge it to 100% for a year or two and see how far and fast it can go without a significant investment to replace it.

 

[Kev250R]

I'll take it a step further and say I'm not really sure why electric motorcycles even exist. One of the reasons I ride the smaller bikes (like the Trail) that I do is for the gas mileage. Of the four bikes I own which are street-legal I think my Trail gets the best MPG. One tank of gas in my Trail literally lasted me all last summer just putting around a lake and town a couple of weekends a month in my local mountains. Even my largest bike (KTM 990 Adventure) can still manage ~30 MPG on the highway and likely would do better if I swapped-out the dual-sport tires it has for something more street-oriented.

My point is I don't see a lot of people buying electric motorcycles because they have a long commute to work, which is a valid argument for electric cars (if you're in that situation). At least in my area, I rarely see any electric bikes on the road and when I do they're generally ridden by someone who 1) Wanted to be the first to own one 2) It's a novelty.

At the end of the day folks are free to buy and ride whatever they want, but I personally have no interest in an electric MC (or car for that matter but that's a different story).

 

[oldskool]

They are crazy quick, while zipping around within their range limits. No gas or oil to mess with which may be a big plus for some that do not have the luxury of a garage or have limited storage options. That is reason enough for some. Why do we ALL, myself included , seem to need to tear down stuff that we have no use for but others do.

 

[BaldRider]

At least in my area, I rarely see any electric bikes on the road and when I do they're generally ridden by someone who 1) Wanted to be the first to own one 2) It's a novelty.

I saw a Zero on the road for the first time about a week ago. As we both live in Southern California, where possibly the most motorcycles per square mile exist, I find this lack of them a bit odd.

I did want VW's new microbus (ID. Buzz) but price and range won't allow me to do it.

 

[dmonkey]

Not street bikes, but I see people on Sur-Ron and Talaria bikes all the time on dirt bike trails. I'll even sometimes see them riding on the street. With how quiet they are they seem to attract less negative attention than 2T and 4T bikes doing the same thing. Unless you're close to them you really only see them, you don't hear them coming a block away.

 

[m in sc]

I can totally see it in national parks and trails . makes sense. the Charlotte police have zero dual sports just for this reason to pursue off road, in parks etc. silent helps too

 

[Kev250R]

I saw a Zero on the road for the first time about a week ago. As we both live in Southern California, where possibly the most motorcycles per square mile exist, I find this lack of them a bit odd.

I did want VW's new microbus (ID. Buzz) but price and range won't allow me to do it.

Yeah, it's rare that I see them in my area too, which I find a bit odd since I live in a College Town and there is a Zero Dealer 10 Mins from me. Honestly, I think it's the price which keeps a lot of people away from them as I see lots of College kids zipping around on cheap electric Scooters.