UPDATE Bike is in the shop for ... who knows how long

[usaff4]

I have 2024 ct125 making the same noise but why bother changing the components to silent the clutch when some of the people that changed them said it eventually made the same noise again?

 

[Ben The Scorpion]

clutch-side rattle or knock specifically on the JA65

Well then... I've been reading this thread as things get added to it. I originally thought the 'rattle, knock, tick' sound was maybe normal'ish. Clutch shifts fine (as far as I know), and haven't any mechanical issues. Listening to that Youtube video from Japan tho. It's exactly the noise my 2023 Trail 125 makes.

I'm about 1 month out from my 1yr since purchase, which is when I believe the Honda warranty expires (After 1yr). Is this something I should look at getting fixed, or is it more of a non issue? Possible increased wear and tear on the clutch from whatever is making the noise? What's your opinion?

Video of my 125 where you can hear the same noise as the Japan video.

 

[Daytripper]

So I have yet to hear anything out of the ordinary on my 2024, and have around 1700 miles on it, mostly easy riding, 35 to 40mph max. So I am not a MC mechanic, but have just some thoughts. If this is a design flaw, wouldn't a high percentage of people be noticing it? It is always difficult to gage just how many people are experiencing it, maybe it is high percentage.. . I call this the iceberg effect, or maybe the squeaky wheel effect where issues get higher reporting than people with non issues do.

If it is just a smaller percentage of the total JA 65's, I would tend to think a couple of things. One, it isn't a design flaw, other wise everyone would be experiencing it. Or it is in how the bike is being driven. IOW, are the bikes making the rattle being ran WOT on faster traffic roads? Another question is how many miles are on the bikes reporting this issue? Or other external things like having the correct oil (unlikely, because why wouldn't we be hearing about this issue from the JA 55's?). If it isn't a design flaw itself, perhaps these some percentage of these clutches are being assembled incorrectly at the factory. .
I am just guessing here, and don't know the magnitude of the problem. I am hoping I don't have to go through this at the dealership which will be a PITA here as I have to take the bike on a 5 hour (each way) ferry to where the dealership I bought it is, then try to educate some shop employee on the likely culprit when he will just know that I don't know anything.

 

[Ben The Scorpion]

My JA65 has been making the rattle / knock noise since day 1 with only 0.4mi on the odometer (over 2k miles now). Partly why I chalked it up to a "normal" noise. A lot of people might also think the same thing if they weren't looking at forums, or videos where that rattle / knock gets mentioned. I could see it going largely unreported. Watchin those videos where the sound is gone, sheesh it sounds so much better without that rattle. If the rattle / knock sound returns after a time, then is it worth fixing everytime (unless it is damaging, or expediting wear, of any parts in the clutch assembly)? If JA55's with thousands of miles never made that rattle once, what is so different with the JA65's clutch assembly (slightly rhetorical)?

 

[dmonkey]

Thank you for a fantastic resource here. I think I will replace the components listed in the first video when I do my first oil spinner cleaning and post the results. I have suspected the damper rubbers and did not realize both the new and old damper rubbers are options for the ja65.

For reference on the two different clutch damper rubber part numbers, here are some direct links to official parts catalogs on Honda Motopub.
Indonesia JA55 parts catalog (includes English)
Japan JA55 parts catalog
Japan JA65 parts catalog

You can search for section E-7 to find the relevant parts, "ﾗﾊﾞｰ,ｸﾗﾂﾁﾀﾞﾝﾊﾟ" or "rubber, clutch damper". When the shop tech in that MPF Channel Japanese YouTube video first mentioned the two different clutch damper rubber part numbers I thought one may have superseded the other, but after digging into it I'm doubtful of that. Both part numbers are officially listed for the JA65 in a similar way to how Honda have listed two different interchangeable part numbers for other parts, such as wheel bearings from different brands.

The USA product fitment lists for the two part numbers show one as being unique to the Super Cub C125 and CT125 (perhaps the Dax too once those parts lists gets published for the USA market, since the 2025 MY JP parts catalog lists both)

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www.partzilla.com

While the other is a common part number listed for various centrifugal type clutches in even decades old Hondas, including CVT scooters:

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www.partzilla.com

I'm interested to see how the two different clutch damper rubbers compare in terms of dimensions and material hardness of the "rubber". With a rattle one would think that there might be witness marks to identify where the issue is, but maybe those blend in with the regular wear of these consumable components. Many unknown unknowns without having seen someone document isolation of the issue's cause, warranty claim documentation beyond a parts list, or if Honda have a technical service bulletin for it.

I have 2024 ct125 making the same noise but why bother changing the components to silent the clutch when some of the people that changed them said it eventually made the same noise again?

So far I have found no mention of this noise being correlated with a failure or impacting the operation of the motorcycle. That's not say that it hasn't been or won't be in the future. But that would factor into any owner's decision to pursue "fixing" it, Honda covering it under warranty, or potentially issuing a voluntary recall (I would not expect this due to cost). I think it's important that anyone make the decision of whether or not to pursue this based on their own interest and concern.

As @Daytripper points out, we don't know the number of CT125s with this issue. I shared some examples I found of it on social media, and there are more nested in the comments of those Facebook threads. At best, that rules out it being a one-off issue for anyone who may have thought only their bike was making that noise. Surely some bean counters at Honda have their eye on the number of warranty claims specific to issues like this, and hopefully there are others with their eye on product issues in terms of customer experience and brand management.

 

[Daytripper]

So far I have found no mention of this noise being correlated with a failure or impacting the operation of the motorcycle. That's not say that it hasn't been or won't be in the future. But that would factor into any owner's decision to pursue "fixing" it, Honda covering it under warranty, or potentially issuing a voluntary recall (I would not expect this due to cost). I think it's important that anyone make the decision of whether or not to pursue this based on their own interest and concern.

I suppose the thing to do, if not tearing into it would be to keep an eye on both the oil filter, any other screens as well as the magnetic drain plug for signs of something wearing out. I'm getting ready to put my bike to bed for the winter, and by next May the warranty may be up (haven't checked that). But even if it never caused an issue, one of the things I love about my bike is the nice "sewing machine" quietness when it is running at idle. That quietness allows for hearing strange noises in the engine, so at that point, if the issue starts up I suppose a louder exhaust pipe is an option IF it is just a sound issue and not something more problematic. I think time should tell us more as these JA 65 engines age on through the years.

 

[Oldfatguy]

Well then... I've been reading this thread as things get added to it. I originally thought the 'rattle, knock, tick' sound was maybe normal'ish. Clutch shifts fine (as far as I know), and haven't any mechanical issues. Listening to that Youtube video from Japan tho. It's exactly the noise my 2023 Trail 125 makes.

I'm about 1 month out from my 1yr since purchase, which is when I believe the Honda warranty expires (After 1yr). Is this something I should look at getting fixed, or is it more of a non issue? Possible increased wear and tear on the clutch from whatever is making the noise? What's your opinion?

Video of my 125 where you can hear the same noise as the Japan video.

Could not get past all the fumbling around with the gloves on.

OFG

 

[Ben The Scorpion]

I find the subtle differences between the two parts catalogues interesting. I get it's not a service manual, so parts orientation is whatever. Mostly amused by it.

out of curiosity I have placed an order for each and will report back on my findings when they arrive

I am also curious about this. Looking forward to the findings.

Also wondering how interchangeable the one way clutch parts are between the JA55 and JA65. Since there are several parts that have different part numbers between the two model's. Not sure why / what significantly changed in the one way clutch between the JA55 and JA65 (besides parts). What was the mechanical need for the different parts?
Possibly due to the Starter Clutch changes between JA55 and JA65.
JA55 - GEAR, STARTER REDUCTION (17T/55T)
28131-KYZ-901
- GEAR, STARTER DRIVEN (57T) 28110-KYZ-900
JA65 - GEAR, STARTER REDUCTION (13T/58T)
28131-K26-G00
- GEAR, STARTER DRIVEN (56T) 28111-K1M-T00

With ratio changes noted by Dmonkey in this post from another thread

It's the same gear ratios in the transmissions on all of the modern CT125s.

1st 2.500
2nd 1.550
3rd 1.150
4th 0.923

Stock sprockets differ between the the 2021-2022 (also 2020 abroad, JA55) and 2023 (JA65) models:
JA55: Reduction ratio (primary / final) 3.350 / 2.78
JA65: Reduction ratio (primary / final) 3.421 / 2.714

LOL I should probably invest in a JA65 maintenance manual.

 

[Ben The Scorpion]

Could not get past all the fumbling around with the gloves on.

OFG

was trying to tuck the end of the phone charging cable away so it wouldn't flap around in the wind. I shoulda just unplugged the damn thing and put it in the bag.

 

[SneakyDingo]

LOL I should probably invest in a JA65 maintenance manual.

Honda Trail 125 CT125 PDF Manual Downloads - Owners, Service, Parts Catalog

Owner's Manual: A booklet that is included with the purchase of a new Honda Trail 125. The Owner's Manual may be located inside the black toolbox located on the left side of the bike below the rear carrier rack. A hex key for opening the tool box can be found clipped to the top of the fuel tank...

hondatrail125.com

The download not cutting it for you? I usually just print only the pages I use fairly frequently.

 

[Ben The Scorpion]

Honda Trail 125 CT125 PDF Manual Downloads - Owners, Service, Parts Catalog

Owner's Manual: A booklet that is included with the purchase of a new Honda Trail 125. The Owner's Manual may be located inside the black toolbox located on the left side of the bike below the rear carrier rack. A hex key for opening the tool box can be found clipped to the top of the fuel tank...

hondatrail125.com

The download not cutting it for you? I usually just print only the pages I use fairly frequently.

I meant like the full service manual for the JA65. Since there are some parts differences. All the links work that I've tried. I just didn't see a link for the JA65 service manual like is posted for the JA55. All good tho

 

[Oldfatguy]

I meant like the full service manual for the JA65. Since there are some parts differences. All the links work that I've tried. I just didn't see a link for the JA65 service manual like is posted for the JA55. All good tho

Bought mine from EBay.

OFG

 

[dmonkey]

Among the parts that are demonstrated in the video to have some play that could result in a rattle are the three clutch damper rubbers (#12) which deform, and the clutch washer (#8) and plate (#10) which have some play where they align onto the same pegs on the primary drive plate as the damper rubbers. It is pointed out that there are two different clutch damper rubber part designs and the replacement he ordered, Honda P/N: 22804-GB2-000, has more rubber covering the inner collar than the original one, presumably Honda P/N: 22804-KPH-880? The JA65 parts catalogs list both part numbers as options for #12 in the parts diagram, while the JA55 only lists 22804-KPH-880. It cost me $4.36 to order one of each of these parts with "free" shipping, so out of curiosity I have placed an order for each and will report back on my findings when they arrive (one was in stock, the other ships in 1-2 weeks).

The clutch damper rubbers I ordered arrived and both the 22804-GB2-000 and 22804-KPH-880 that I received are indistinguishable from each other even though they came in bags labeled with their own unique part numbers. They have the same inner collar exposure under the rubber and the same gate scars from the mold. Both items I received are made in Thailand (per their bag), while in that video the 22804-GB2-000 rubbers he received that covered the collar more and were installed as part of the remediation were made in China. I was expecting the parts I received to be different which may have narrowed down the issue, but that is not the case, so this information may not be very useful other than to caution that ordering one clutch damper or another, you can't expect them to be any different.




As an update to one of the previously mentioned rattle videos, https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1214413706503496, that one has just been resolved with a clutch replacement under warranty.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/609951639748501/posts/1812047306205589/

 

[Ben The Scorpion]

Super Cub C125 with same knocking / rattle noise

Honda replaced all the clutch parts, and the sound was gone. Mechanic mentions something about the Cam chain tensioner too? I dunno the auto translate isn't great. Last couple minutes of video is the mechanic doing a quick swap on some of the parts.

Found it interesting it's not just the Trail making the noise