Apologies if this has been covered, but I’m trying to determine the best route for some relatively easy mid range power mods without going full BBK. From what I’ve read from m in SC and others, it seems like my best bet may be a Yuminashi 238 cam, EFIE, and PCX 150 injector. Can anyone weigh in on this setup? Is the injector beneficial without a BBK? Is there something else I should consider? If it matters, I’ve got a 2022 trail. Thanks!
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Best non-BBK power mods?
- Thread starter ThrasherC
- Start date
Salty Sway
Member
M in SC is a wealth of knowledge and I appreciate him sharing his experiences. I went with the Kitaco mid range cam, EFIE, & PCX 150 injector, all relatively easy, noticed a considerable difference in mid-high RPM performance. I have the NK Tuning intake in transit and will stop there for the summer. If you can install a cam a BBK is not much more challenging and the aforementioned mods will enhance the BBK performance. What I liked about the mods was the ability to accelerate up a hill in 4th, before I would lose a couple of mph on the same hill. I bought the bike used with 300 miles on it in December, made the changes before 400 miles and have almost 500 miles on it now and believe it was well worth the time and expense. I also added a Delta exhaust, not much louder than stock, pretty much did all of the changes about the same time and can't say which one made the biggest improvement.
Thanks a lot for the reply! I should have mentioned that I’m trying to avoid changing out the stock exhaust because I’d like to avoid making it any louder, and with that in mind I think intake probably isn’t worth it for me since there’s nowhere for that extra air to go. What made you go with the Kitaco cam over the others on the market?
Salty Sway
Member
Previous experience with Kitaco, WebikeJapan had it in stock, and was ordering other items from them. W/O an exhaust upgrade I doubt you'll see much of an improvement. Most of the exhausts listed on WebikeJapan have the db listed in the description. The Delta I have is not loud at all, the Z125 with stock exhaust was louder. Your call but adding more fuel/air and constraining the exhaust seems counter intuitive.
I was going off of this post linked below from m in sc that seemed to indicate that the cam would be worth it even on an otherwise stock bike, but maybe I’m misunderstanding.
Post in thread ''238' cam, for lower end/midrange installed':
https://hondatrail125.com/index.php?threads/238-cam-for-lower-end-midrange-installed.721/post-7188
Salty Sway
Member
The motor in the CT125 is not a high tech motor and I often think about the mods we did to cars back in the day, can't remember anyone putting a cam in a Chevelle until it already had a set of headers. Carburetor upgrades didn't see a benefit w/o headers. Will you see a gain with a cam and stock exhaust? Brighter people than me will have to answer. A cam change will put more air/fuel in the cylinder hence the need for the EFIE, will it be hindered by the stock exhaust? Spend some time on a dyno, only way to know. Kitco cam description, I-MAP is a fuel controller, the EFIE is a cheap fuel controller. I'm just a parts changer.
○Valve timing angle (when using stock cylinder head)
IN valve: OPEN 7 degrees BTDC/CLOSE 36 degrees ABDC
EX valve: OPEN 37 degrees BBDC/CLOSE 9 degrees ATDC
Reference value at 1mm lift
Can be used with stock engines
*There is no decompression function.
*I-MAP is required for installation.
*There may be changes in product specifications due to the manufacturer's reasons.
This high camshaft is compatible with the stock Grom cylinder head.
Type 1 emphasizes a power surge at mid-range RPM.
PRODUCT DETAIL
Type 1○Valve timing angle (when using stock cylinder head)
IN valve: OPEN 7 degrees BTDC/CLOSE 36 degrees ABDC
EX valve: OPEN 37 degrees BBDC/CLOSE 9 degrees ATDC
Reference value at 1mm lift
Can be used with stock engines
*There is no decompression function.
*I-MAP is required for installation.
*There may be changes in product specifications due to the manufacturer's reasons.
This high camshaft is compatible with the stock Grom cylinder head.
Type 1 emphasizes a power surge at mid-range RPM.
m in sc
Well-known member
the exhaust is a power killer for sure, especially on these bikes.. def address that. i originally made a bigger headpipe/removed the cat and it def helped (w cam, rest stockish). Id go exhaust, cam, 15o injector, eife, and the TB intake of nothing else. id skip the i-map. real power changes would be noted if the timing was programmable.. and that doesnt do it. 0.02
Where does the I-Map and ECU module come from? Part numbers of link?
Salty Sway
Member
"I-Map" may refer to the Kitaco product
m in sc
Well-known member
i've heard reports of both just 'resetting' while running. one reason i didn't go that way.
Salty Sway
Member
I have a $300 + Bazzaz on the Z125 and it's been more challenging to fuel properly than the CT125 with the EFIE device. The research has been done on Groms, Monkeys, & Trails for the EFIE and the settings readily available for Hondas work well. I have debated removing the Bazzaz and trying the EFIE on the Z125 but at the moment I'm in a decent place with the Z125, if the upcoming cam change upsets the tune much the Bazzaz will likely be replaced.
m in sc
Well-known member
if SOMEBODY could figure out how to unlock one of the ecms we'd be set.
It seems fairly common with piggyback tuners. I've had that same issue with Dynojet Power Commanders on two different bikes.
If anyone wants to contact Dynojet and express additional interest, they have been sitting on a dump of the USA CT125 JA55 ECM but haven't added support for it to the Power Vision 3 yet.
Support Form Page | Dynojet
We encourage our customers to provide enough details regarding any sales inquiries so that our team can best serve your needs. Contact us!
www.dynojet.com
It might not be everyone's ideal tuner, but it's one that opens up options for stock ECM reflash at home use as well as for shops with bulk licensing.
m in sc
Well-known member
dyno jet got in trouble w the epa, and had to revise their programming on the pc6 vs the 5. they say its the same, it absolutely isn't, and IMHO, pretty garbage, especially since there's a 15% change max allowed unless you have the dealer/dyno jet tuner over ride codes.
I fought w them for 4 mos on my CB1100 to get the options to work right. Its finally really good, and has 6 individual maps and target tables (one for each gear). I never had a problem with it resetting, ever, on any of the bikes i have had, except in one specific situation where you have 2 maps loaded, and the auto tune is on, and you switch between the 2 maps . it will reset the program in the box to zero doing that. ask how i know that as well. lol. so, dual maps, AT has to be off to use the switch. I still would put DJ leaps and bounds ahead of the other 2 mentioned as far as research and support.
Ive run the 3, 5 and 6 on multiple bikes.
I fought w them for 4 mos on my CB1100 to get the options to work right. Its finally really good, and has 6 individual maps and target tables (one for each gear). I never had a problem with it resetting, ever, on any of the bikes i have had, except in one specific situation where you have 2 maps loaded, and the auto tune is on, and you switch between the 2 maps . it will reset the program in the box to zero doing that. ask how i know that as well. lol. so, dual maps, AT has to be off to use the switch. I still would put DJ leaps and bounds ahead of the other 2 mentioned as far as research and support.
Ive run the 3, 5 and 6 on multiple bikes.
Their web site sttes dos not fit on JA65 modes
I just left Dyna some info on model JA65 2023 and newer need help.It seems fairly common with piggyback tuners. I've had that same issue with Dynojet Power Commanders on two different bikes.
If anyone wants to contact Dynojet and express additional interest, they have been sitting on a dump of the USA CT125 JA55 ECM but haven't added support for it to the Power Vision 3 yet.
Support Form Page | Dynojet
We encourage our customers to provide enough details regarding any sales inquiries so that our team can best serve your needs. Contact us!
It might not be everyone's ideal tuner, but it's one that opens up options for stock ECM reflash at home use as well as for shops with bulk licensing.
Sounds like further pipe mods are required as low buck improvement on air flow beyond just spark arrestor screen removal. Anyone cut apart the stock exhaust tube yet to duscover where tge restrictions are. It was stated bh Honda the 2023 models got new exhaust muffler internals. Improved flow without noise is the goal. Gotta keep the ECU happy or engine malfunction light will be on.
To be honest I do not even know where the O2 sensor is yet. Been riding it since the snow disappeared up here. Hope it is upstream of the cat. It must be or it would not be able to feedback tune
Here is the JA65 one from Takegawa
o2 sensor is behind a guard on the right side of engine head. Vertically it's just below the spark plug.