CT110 low range second gear vs 125 ist gear.

[Chatham125]

Hi all,
This my first post. My trail 125 is due to be delivered by the end of April. I am not new to the Honda CT series. I have owned (2) CT 90's, and currently own a 1982 Trail 110. I am a little concerned about my 125. I does not have the dual range transmission which I have enjoyed on all my other CT through the years.. I have been testing my CT110 in different modes to determine my choice for a first gear ratio on the new 125. I have steep hills on my property and this is what I have found so far. Second gear in low range would be my choice for a first gear ratio for the 125. I hardly use 1st in low but second can handle anything I can throw at it. Third in low range is unable to climb my hills on my place. The current gear ratio of my trail 110 is 3.0. The 125 has a final drive of 2.78. With a 13T sprocket swap on the front and the stock 39 t on the rear it is the same 3.0 as the CT110. I tested my CT in high range in first gear and it is still not as capable as the low range second gear on low range of the CT110. How can I achieve the same power in first gear on the 125 as the CT110 has in 2nd gear low range. If I can not sort this out I will be selling a very low mileage Honda trail 125.
Thanks and glad to be a pert of the forum.
Rich B

 

[AZ7000']

Wow, you appear excited about the new bike, just ride it! It is a fun bike, not a ct-90 or 110. It is also like 80# heavier.
I hope it is a good fit, it is for me

 

[Chatham125]

Thanks I really am excited. I have waited a whole year for it and had to much time to read and think. No bike time to try her out. Just a few more weeks to go!

 

[SneakyDingo]

How can I achieve the same power in first gear on the 125 as the CT110 has in 2nd gear low range.

This sounds like a terrible idea. I've never let a bad idea stop me before though.

Try running a 13-50T or 14-50T (equivalent of approx ~13T-46T). Since you'll have the OEM front sprocket it should be easy to try that 14-50 combination. The 1st gear on the CT125 should be 4% higher than the second gear on the CT110's low range 2nd gear, but the added power and torque as well as engine characteristics being different and added weight makes it a bit hard to nail exactly where the parity would be achieved. Data was gleaned using a gearing calculator. Calculators do not represent real world performance.

Data:

Honda Trail - CT90 & CT110 Forum-CT90-CT110 Transmission Gear Ratios?

Do all 4 speed CT transmissions have the same gear ratios? What are they? Is the low range on them the same reduction ratio? What is it? What is the

www.tapatalk.com

2021 Honda CT125 Hunter Cub Released! Specs, Accessories + USA Release Date Soon?

– 2021 Honda Trail 125 (CT125) Hunter Cub Release News / Specs, USA CT125 Release Date, Aftermarket Exhaust Systems, Accessories + More! – It’s finally official! We’ve been talking about the CT125 concept model ever since Honda unveiled it last year and it has now been unveiled as the 2021...

www.hondaprokevin.com

Gearing calculator: http://www.dansmc.com/mc_software1.htm

Tall gearing and steep hills isn't something that's easily overcome; you can either change the ratio, change the engine, or decrease the wheel size. Sometimes the vehicle is not the right one for the job. When I was looking at the CT125, crawling up steep hills was one of the only places the old bike beats the new one; the other being the ability to fold the handlebars sideways.

 

[Chatham125]

Great Advise. I think I am going to just ride it and let the bike teach me it's capabilities. My CT110 is pure stock but I only use it around the hills and pastures on my land not used on the road at all.

 

[Carolina Vagabond]

I have both a 125 and an ‘81 110. For the steep dirt tracks I definitely use the 110. As far as the 125, I ride mostly backroads and dirt roads just to get a breath of fresh manure. You will like the throttle response of the 125 as compared to the 110. As others have said, the 125 is more “refined” but I wouldn’t call it as robust as the 110 or the 90’s. But the extra power is nice. I love my 110

 

[Chatham125]

Sounds like it will be my plan also. Thanks!!!

 

[m in sc]

i think the 'robustness' has yet to be determined vs the 2. the ct125 hasn't been out long enough to make an assessment yet. but, again, its basically just a tarted up supercub.

 

[Carolina Vagabond]

i think the 'robustness' has yet to be determined vs the 2. the ct125 hasn't been out long enough to make an assessment yet. but, again, its basically just a tarted up supercub.

I agree. I fully expect the 125’s to be chugging along 2-3 decades from now, if we can get gasoline then. I’m just one of those that cling to the “they don’t make ‘em like they use too” mentality. I like things simple BUT, I do like some of the refinement’s on the 125. It is definitely a better road bike. I love my 125 but there is that nostalgia that lingers with the tough ‘Ol 110 that still fires with 1 soft kick after 40 years that will not release me from her embrace.....

 

[Chatham125]

The one thing about the CT series is the way I can creep and crawel at a walking pace in 1st gear low range with a load going up a steep hill. I am waiting for the phone call from my Honda dealer saying my 125 is in. In the mean time I have work to do. It was 78 degrees yesterday. Today it has been pouring rain sine 1 AM and a 35 degree temp drop. It quit raing and I ran the 110 down to the barn for 4 loads of fire wood. The creek looked like the Colorado river as I turned to run up the 45 degree muddy hill each time I dropped off a load at the house. She is a capable mule for sure.

 

[Chatham125]

This sounds like a terrible idea. I've never let a bad idea stop me before though.

Try running a 13-50T or 14-50T (equivalent of approx ~13T-46T). Since you'll have the OEM front sprocket it should be easy to try that 14-50 combination. The 1st gear on the CT125 should be 4% higher than the second gear on the CT110's low range 2nd gear, but the added power and torque as well as engine characteristics being different and added weight makes it a bit hard to nail exactly where the parity would be achieved. Data was gleaned using a gearing calculator. Calculators do not represent real world performance.

Data:

Honda Trail - CT90 & CT110 Forum-CT90-CT110 Transmission Gear Ratios?

Do all 4 speed CT transmissions have the same gear ratios? What are they? Is the low range on them the same reduction ratio? What is it? What is the

www.tapatalk.com

2021 Honda CT125 Hunter Cub Released! Specs, Accessories + USA Release Date Soon?

– 2021 Honda Trail 125 (CT125) Hunter Cub Release News / Specs, USA CT125 Release Date, Aftermarket Exhaust Systems, Accessories + More! – It’s finally official! We’ve been talking about the CT125 concept model ever since Honda unveiled it last year and it has now been unveiled as the 2021...

www.hondaprokevin.com

Gearing calculator: http://www.dansmc.com/mc_software1.htm

Tall gearing and steep hills isn't something that's easily overcome; you can either change the ratio, change the engine, or decrease the wheel size. Sometimes the vehicle is not the right one for the job. When I was looking at the CT125, crawling up steep hills was one of the only places the old bike beats the new one; the other being the ability to fold the handlebars sideways.

Hey Sneaky, It's all good. I changed out the 14T for the 13T and it put a big smile on my face and made a 125 run better than my CT110 in high gear range.

 

[fernf5]

Just put 13/45 combo sprockets on today. Didn't want to go bigger than the 45 in the rear. I wanted to retain as much top end when needed by switching between front sprockets.
Raining a lot so didn't get to give it a real thorough test, BUT I'd say first gear is seat of the pants comparable to second gear low range on a 110 now. I have a 15 tooth sprocket for the road if I want it with dedicated chains for each setup. I have Shinko 244's mounted.
When it drys out some in a couple weeks I'll take it on some trails for a good test. I bought the bike mostly for trail/gravel road work when I'm hunting or fishing. Top end will be quite a bit slower (again rain stopped me from checking) but it will be fast enough for trails and gravel roads.
My old 110 is pretty long in the tooth and tired and I have a hard time straying far from camp for fear of breaking down and having to walk back. Not much to worry about with the 125. The electrical stuff on the old 110's are time bombs. No slight on the 110's and 90's. I love em, had 1/2 dozen or so.
Never had a problem yet but 40 year old bike (I like old bikes) 15 miles from camp, sun's going down, sky's clouding up....no spark. Uh oh.
Sorry for the half assed report but I'll make up for it after I ride awhile. Just wanted to chime in on this thread.

 

[DJ427]

The 125 suffers from fuel injection which is both a blessing and a curse. The lack of "robustness" is because the chance to load up the carb and let 'er rip are about zero with FI. I've built a number of hotrod motors and been around many others who did the same. Someone switches from carb to FI and it runs just perfect everywhere but it won't roar like it used to. LOL

 

[Chatham125]

The 125 suffers from fuel injection which is both a blessing and a curse. The lack of "robustness" is because the chance to load up the carb and let 'er rip are about zero with FI. I've built a number of hotrod motors and been around many others who did the same. Someone switches from carb to FI and it runs just perfect everywhere but it won't roar like it used to. LOL

I agree. This is very notiable jumping form th e 125 to CT110.

 

[m in sc]

just means the fi needs a remap to suit riding conditions.

 

[Little_Thumper_Boy]

Just want to say thanks to those posting -- this has been a very helpful thread. There's actually little real-world honest, frank and practical comparison written up for the CT110 vs the 125, and so it's good to hear from those here who own and have experience with both.
I've been pining for and looking at the 125 since launch, but dealers around here (N. UT) aren't even taking new waiting list requests any longer, let alone deposits (recently told me their current delivery expectations are beyond 2023).
I've had a few 110's over the years and still have an '84 with 800 miles (basically I kept it in storage ~20 years), so plenty life remaining. My plan was to score a new 125 and put the 110 on the block, but this year after throwing in the towel on hopes for a new 125, I revamped and updated the 110 where it made sense (LED conversions, charging system upgrade, tach, carb overhaul, etc.). Though it runs great and more than fast enough for me (top speed an honest 54mph @ 4000 ft. GPS - maybe a slight tail wind?), I now understand its advantages and deficits vs. the 125. My chief complaint is the old design suspension on the 110, it's just not 'smooth / refined' like folks report the 125 to be (that is, for both bikes' rather limited short suspension travel). But so what. I do like the having the lo-range and used to use that on my older '81 CT110 in the Utah mountains when I rode them a lot years ago -- hillsides get steep here. Chatham is right, and 2nd gear lo got used often, and even 1st low was essential at times. Honda knew.
Everything's a trade-off and compromise, top speed vs slow climb-ability, ancient shocks and forks vs. refined ride, and there's nothing so broad as to totally fill the whole continuum of needs/wants. The ultimate might be a CT125 with the new Grom/Monkey 5-speed trans plus lo-range. I know...dream on!

 

[Chatham125]

Just want to say thanks to those posting -- this has been a very helpful thread. There's actually little real-world honest, frank and practical comparison written up for the CT110 vs the 125, and so it's good to hear from those here who own and have experience with both.
I've been pining for and looking at the 125 since launch, but dealers around here (N. UT) aren't even taking new waiting list requests any longer, let alone deposits (recently told me their current delivery expectations are beyond 2023).
I've had a few 110's over the years and still have an '84 with 800 miles (basically I kept it in storage ~20 years), so plenty life remaining. My plan was to score a new 125 and put the 110 on the block, but this year after throwing in the towel on hopes for a new 125, I revamped and updated the 110 where it made sense (LED conversions, charging system upgrade, tach, carb overhaul, etc.). Though it runs great and more than fast enough for me (top speed an honest 54mph @ 4000 ft. GPS - maybe a slight tail wind?), I now understand its advantages and deficits vs. the 125. My chief complaint is the old design suspension on the 110, it's just not 'smooth / refined' like folks report the 125 to be (that is, for both bikes' rather limited short suspension travel). But so what. I do like the having the lo-range and used to use that on my older '81 CT110 in the Utah mountains when I rode them a lot years ago -- hillsides get steep here. Chatham is right, and 2nd gear lo got used often, and even 1st low was essential at times. Honda knew.
Everything's a trade-off and compromise, top speed vs slow climb-ability, ancient shocks and forks vs. refined ride, and there's nothing so broad as to totally fill the whole continuum of needs/wants. The ultimate might be a CT125 with the new Grom/Monkey 5-speed trans plus lo-range. I know...dream on!

LTB, There are Trail 125's out there. Some used with less than 250 miles on them. I joined the Honda Trail 125 group on fakebook and see them all the time. (they also have a CT90/CT110 group). I have come as close as possible, maybe even achieved my stated goal of a Trail 125 with a first gear just like second gear in low range on my CT110. I keep jumping from bike to bike to compare them on my hills. Almost Identical. The exception being the 125 has gobs more power available when you twist the throttle on the hills. I ended up with a 13T front and a 45 tooth rear and a new chain. Total cost less than $85.00. I have a top speed GPS of 50 MPH on a level with no head wind. The bike likes to cruise at 40 to 45 miles per hour all day and night. Keep looking and you will find a Trail 125. They are out there. NIce Post by the way.

 

[VoodooCLD]

LTB, There are Trail 125's out there. Some used with less than 250 miles on them. I joined the Honda Trail 125 group on fakebook and see them all the time. (they also have a CT90/CT110 group). I have come as close as possible, maybe even achieved my stated goal of a Trail 125 with a first gear just like second gear in low range on my CT110. I keep jumping from bike to bike to compare them on my hills. Almost Identical. The exception being the 125 has gobs more power available when you twist the throttle on the hills. I ended up with a 13T front and a 45 tooth rear and a new chain. Total cost less than $85.00. I have a top speed GPS of 50 MPH on a level with no head wind. The bike likes to cruise at 40 to 45 miles per hour all day and night. Keep looking and you will find a Trail 125. They are out there. NIce Post by the way.

Do you have part numbers for the sprockets and chain you used? Just got my CT125 and and deeply disappointed at the torque it has in first gear as I mainly want to use it as a trail rig.

Also, have you had a chance to run it up to top speed to see where it's comfortable cruising at with that gear ratio?

 

[Chatham125]

Do you have part numbers for the sprockets and chain you used? Just got my CT125 and and deeply disappointed at the torque it has in first gear as I mainly want to use it as a trail rig.

Also, have you had a chance to run it up to top speed to see where it's comfortable cruising at with that gear ratio?

The part# for the 13T is JTF273-13. I can't find the pn# for the 45T rear at the moment. just google it.

 

[Chatham125]

The top speed at level road is 50 MPH. It cruiuses fine at 40 to 45 mph. At 50 mph you are not hitting the rev limiter. I am expecting a cheap tachometer in the mail any day now,so I will have a better idea of the RPM's.