Motorcycle Safety Foundation Advanced Rider Course

[Mick In VT]

Yesterday I attended the MSF Advanced Rider Course on my CT125. We had only five riders with two instructors on a hot and sunny day. Much to everyone’s surprise, the CT held its own on the short course with speeds never exceeding 25-30. This is a new class in Vermont and has gotten very low enrollment (the next classes will likely be cancelled if they don’t get more people to sign up). I recommend this MSF ARC wherever you can find it offered- it focused on rapid braking, accident avoidance, and lots of cornering with discussion and tons of exercises. I got so low in the turns I was dragging my foot pegs! While some of these actions can be practiced by yourself in the street or parking lot, you will gain a lot by having the performance stress of doing it in a class, and the feedback from skilled trainers. And don’t be afraid to show up on a Trail, our mini motos are more than capable. At the end of the day I was exhausted but gained a lot of respect for what you can do on a Trail 125, and sharpened my skills handling a motorcycle. Has anyone else taken the Advanced Rider Training?

 

[SneakyDingo]

Much to everyone’s surprise, the CT held its own on the short course with speeds never exceeding 25-30.... And don’t be afraid to show up on a Trail, our mini motos are more than capable.

I've never taken the MSF Advanced Rider Training specifically, but the CT110 held several records at a former advanced rider course I did ages ago, ridden by a postie of course, some of the records set while the bike was fully loaded. Some of the records far exceeded what our class was capable of achieving on a variety of bikes ranging from 175cc to a Hayabusa. The course emphasized handling and slow to medium speed skills, so of course that made sense that the CT110/CT125 series bikes would do well under those conditions.

I've never taken one on the CT125, but I took one on the ZZR250 (EX250). It focused on swerve and avoid, emergency braking, slow speed cornering, accident avoidance, etc.

The MSF course and those classroom / course discussions saved my life in Yosemite though, so I'm a huge fan of taking them. Copy-pasta from previously discussing it:

I was riding through Yosemite, riding here. I had been reflecting on my MSF course training and was on the right tire track, even though the conditions favored riding farther out to the center line, because I felt the safer position was on the right side in case some asshole decided to cross the line. As I went around one of these blind corners, a F250 sized truck coming the opposite direction was all the way over the line, all the way into my lane, and AFTER they took corrective action we barely missed each other by less than 2 ft. No questions about it, if I had been a car, there would have been a collision, and chances are someone would be dead because it was so remote with no cell service. While I don't want to scare your lovely, you should pose the question of lane positioning to her for that spot and see what she thinks.

 

[McRuss]

Yesterday I attended the MSF Advanced Rider Course on my CT125. We had only five riders with two instructors on a hot and sunny day. Much to everyone’s surprise, the CT held its own on the short course with speeds never exceeding 25-30. This is a new class in Vermont and has gotten very low enrollment (the next classes will likely be cancelled if they don’t get more people to sign up). I recommend this MSF ARC wherever you can find it offered- it focused on rapid braking, accident avoidance, and lots of cornering with discussion and tons of exercises. I got so low in the turns I was dragging my foot pegs! While some of these actions can be practiced by yourself in the street or parking lot, you will gain a lot by having the performance stress of doing it in a class, and the feedback from skilled trainers. And don’t be afraid to show up on a Trail, our mini motos are more than capable. At the end of the day I was exhausted but gained a lot of respect for what you can do on a Trail 125, and sharpened my skills handling a motorcycle. Has anyone else taken the Advanced Rider Training?

I took the advanced class years ago and then several years later, got my instructor (later changed to Rider Coach) certificate and taught the beginner course in both AZ and TX. I never taught the advanced course because it took an advanced instructor cert and I was busy enough with beginners. Beginners was fun to teach/instruct/coach as you saw folks who had never ridden anything but a bicycle learn to handle a motorcycle in a respectable manner. Mind me, they still needed lots of practice before hitting a metro highway system! We always told them to get down to a parking lot after hours and ride, ride, ride, practicing all the things they learned.

 

[STUBBORN]

I took the advanced class years ago and then several years later, got my instructor (later changed to Rider Coach) certificate and taught the beginner course in both AZ and TX. I never taught the advanced course because it took an advanced instructor cert and I was busy enough with beginners. Beginners was fun to teach/instruct/coach as you saw folks who had never ridden anything but a bicycle learn to handle a motorcycle in a respectable manner. Mind me, they still needed lots of practice before hitting a metro highway system! We always told them to get down to a parking lot after hours and ride, ride, ride, practicing all the things they learned.

Last owned a SEARS SR250 motorcycle in the 1960s. Also known as a 'Twingle' (split-single), two cylinders sharing a single combustion chamber. Made in Denfield West Germany by PUCH (Austria). Traded it for a Johnson 30 hp outboard motor.


Took MSE beginner class last year.
Fell many times and then failed the rider skills exam twice.

Now I am Practicing almost every day with the Trail 125 in a huge empty parking lot with trees and islands.
Using a 25 foot tape measure, sidewalk chalk, and lots of practice cones. 60 for $19.00

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Usually early mornings until it gets too hot at about 10 or 11 AM.

In order of difficulty:
Right turn from stop. ( counter balance )
20 foot U turn. ( turn your head )
Quick stop using front & rear brakes from 15 mph. (Down shift + Use both brakes )
Cone weave. ( look ahead not at the cones )
Stop on a blue handicapped square. ( Keep bike straight and upright when braking )
Swerve at 15 mph. ( OK to Lean. )
Turn signal usage. ( Remember to cancel. )

Practice other driving skills takes time to set up so I do only a few on weekends:

3 small circles ( look ahead - don't fixate )
Reducing size S turns ( right seems harder why? )
Figure 8 turns in two parking spaces. ( I scraped the foot pegs! - leaning )
Practice SEE with down and up shifting with braking for 4 corner turns and many, many intersections.

I watch the Revzilla team video at the Police Bike Rodeo in Texas to get inspired!

Anxiety and atonement at the police rodeo - RevZilla

Ari and Zack train on cone courses to prepare for a police rodeo, where motor officers from across the country compete and exhibit their bike-handling skills.

www.revzilla.com

 

[McRuss]

Last owned a SEARS SR250 motorcycle in the 1960s. Also known as a 'Twingle' (split-single), two cylinders sharing a single combustion chamber. Made in Denfield West Germany by PUCH (Austria). Traded it for a Johnson 30 hp outboard motor.
View attachment 3477

Took MSE beginner class last year.
Fell many times and then failed the rider skills exam twice.

Now I am Practicing almost every day with the Trail 125 in a huge empty parking lot with trees and islands.
Using a 25 foot tape measure, sidewalk chalk, and lots of practice cones. View attachment 3476 60 for $19.00

Amazon.com : HSZJsto Pro Disc Cones (Set of 60) Soccer Mini Cones - Agility Soccer Cones with Carry Bag for Training, Football, Kids, Sports, Field Cone Markers, Sports Equipment for Fitness Training : Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com : HSZJsto Pro Disc Cones (Set of 60) Soccer Mini Cones - Agility Soccer Cones with Carry Bag for Training, Football, Kids, Sports, Field Cone Markers, Sports Equipment for Fitness Training : Sports & Outdoors

www.amazon.com

Usually early mornings until it gets too hot at about 10 or 11 AM.

In order of difficulty:
Right turn from stop. ( counter balance )
20 foot U turn. ( turn your head )
Quick stop using front & rear brakes from 15 mph. (Down shift + Use both brakes )
Cone weave. ( look ahead not at the cones )
Stop on a blue handicapped square. ( Keep bike straight and upright when braking )
Swerve at 15 mph. ( OK to Lean. )
Turn signal usage. ( Remember to cancel. )

Practice other driving skills takes time to set up so I do only a few on weekends:

3 small circles ( look ahead - don't fixate )
Reducing size S turns ( right seems harder why? )
Figure 8 turns in two parking spaces. ( I scraped the foot pegs! - leaning )
Practice SEE with down and up shifting with braking for 4 corner turns and many, many intersections.

I watch the Revzilla team video at the Police Bike Rodeo in Texas to get inspired!

Anxiety and atonement at the police rodeo - RevZilla

Ari and Zack train on cone courses to prepare for a police rodeo, where motor officers from across the country compete and exhibit their bike-handling skills.

www.revzilla.com

Good for you! Practice, practice, practice! I have to say though that after riding 'big' motorcycles for 60 plus years, the Trail 125 has been a learning experience all over again! The steering is so quick, the 'clutch' so weird and different from anything I've ever ridden ( and none of my current motors have clutch levers), and the gear ratios are so close together! I am patiently waiting for the monsoons to give up so that I can hit the trails (leave it in 1st or 2nd!) where it should be. As for Police Bikes, I signed up once for 'motors' when I was a LEO. When the red tape cleared, the "motor" was a three wheeled Cushman and I was assigned to shopping center patrol with it!

 

[Soliminal]

Yesterday I attended the MSF Advanced Rider Course on my CT125. We had only five riders with two instructors on a hot and sunny day. Much to everyone’s surprise, the CT held its own on the short course with speeds never exceeding 25-30. This is a new class in Vermont and has gotten very low enrollment (the next classes will likely be cancelled if they don’t get more people to sign up). I recommend this MSF ARC wherever you can find it offered- it focused on rapid braking, accident avoidance, and lots of cornering with discussion and tons of exercises. I got so low in the turns I was dragging my foot pegs! While some of these actions can be practiced by yourself in the street or parking lot, you will gain a lot by having the performance stress of doing it in a class, and the feedback from skilled trainers. And don’t be afraid to show up on a Trail, our mini motos are more than capable. At the end of the day I was exhausted but gained a lot of respect for what you can do on a Trail 125, and sharpened my skills handling a motorcycle. Has anyone else taken the Advanced Rider Training?

I just passed the Basic MSF course yesterday, I'm also in Vermont! Our two day course was in 89-90 degree weather and was physically and mentally tough for me, but so fun and worth it. 11 people signed up for the course but only 6 of us showed up, which I didn't mind, I enjoyed the smaller class size. The instructors were really fantastic! I hope to take the advanced course some day like you on my Trail 125 once I become more competent. At this point I'm really only qualified to ride around an empty parking lot at 12-20 mph and not particularly gracefully.

 

[McRuss]

Congratulations! The basic course is much more advance now than when I started as an 'Instructor' over 20 years ago! We used to spend the first hour or so on the range with the engine off, pushing the bikes around the course to get a feel for balance! Now the 'instructors' are Rider Coaches and give the beginners more credit for being able to handle the bikes. Keep up the practice and have fun!

 

[STUBBORN]

As I gain experience riding the little red donkey, riding is becoming much more enjoyable.

I am practicing approaching curves, intersections, making head turns before lane changes,
and shifting gears, using both front and rear brakes.

I am going to try some slow speed maneuvers in second gear since the bike jerks a lot in first gear.

Right now, I am worrying about loading and unloading the bike on the ramps without a hill.

The 9 foot ramps do not seem very wide when they are connected to a 36 inch rise into the van.

Rolling down this steep incline means going slow carefully using the brakes.
Powering up the steep incline requires using both throttle and front brake while guiding the heavy
bike and slowly walking up a narrow steep ramp beside it.

 

[SneakyDingo]

I am going to try some slow speed maneuvers in second gear since the bike jerks a lot in first gear.

"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast." A gentle and smooth right hand is useful for this bike in 1st, or liter bikes that will do 60 in 1st. You'll get the hang of it if you keep practicing in 1st. That being said, my throttle cable was/is hella loose when I first got the bike, and tightening that up to be more snug does help, as does making sure the chain tension is set correctly.

 

[STUBBORN]

Och, SneakyDingo, Now I has to check and tighten the throttle cable!

Grumble.
Reaches for the well thumbed Owner's Manual.
See your dealer. Nope.
Checks the Service manual. Nope.
H'mm.
Watch a you tube on this Forum!
Gets popcorn...

HOW TO FIX YOUR TRAIL 125 THROTTLE! | 2021 Honda CT-125 Throttle Grip Free Play Adjustment​

Och.
Plus check the chain slack and tighten that also if needed.

Checks the Owners Manual - see the dealer.
Service manual. Nope.
H'mm.
Watch the you tube on this Forum!
Gets more popcorn.

Chain Tension Adjustment​

Lots of tools needed for doin' this correctly.

But it can be done by a dwarf!
Where's me hammer then?

 

[Opfor656]

Got a chuckle from other's experience with the Beginners course. Makes my own failure at practical exercise portion of my Beginners course easier to take LOL. My last two wheeled experience was lets say "many decades" ago on both a Honda 50 and 75 (early 1970's?). Been riding ATV's off and on road for about 15 years (you can ride them on road legally in S. America where I most recently lived) so figured "how hard can it be riding a CT125?". Even had my LEO certs for ATV's offroad in NM. So bought the bike and signed up for course here in OK. Then found out I couldn't take course on my own bike and got "issued" a Honda Grom with clutch (ouch!). Took class a few weeks ago when temps were over 100. Sweated profusely and learned a lot, especially that I was no where close to being able to pass the "practical" test, which I didn't of course. In retrospect I wished I had realized that you must have some basic ability to ride prior to just showing up cold to take the class. As a day and a half of riding experience at least at my advance age, isn't going to get you thru that practical. Still a good course and I learned a lot. Practicing now in the school parking lot across the street from the house at every opportunity and after lots more practice I'll just go thru the DMV licensing exams and keep hitting them till I pass.

 

[Kev250R]

When I started riding on the street ~15 years ago (prior to that I rode in the dirt exclusively) I took an MSF class and really got a lot out of it! I've always said I was going to go back and take the advanced course but haven't gotten around to it (it's only been 15 years or so). The funny part is at the time I was with a girl who claimed she didn't need to take any sort of rider course because she'd been riding for years and already knew everything they'd teach her in the class. Once I took the course I realized that she had been doing just about everything wrong LOL!

Keep practicing! It's generally easier (and smoother) to go around corners in 2nd gear. Even on my large Adventure bike I find that to be the case.

As far as how to load your Trail into your van goes. I know this will sound odd but I used to know a guy who loaded a Yamaha TW200 into the back of an Astro van (with no rear seat in it) by himself by mounting a Harbor Freight winch between the front seats then using a sling around the front forks. If memory serves all he had to do was walk alongside the bike as he worked the remote on the winch. It would pull the front wheel straight into a wheel chock he had bolted to the floor of his van.

Be glad you're not trying to load it into the rear of a pick-up truck! That's how I generally haul my bikes and find having a second person is essential. And if that second person actually knows what they're doing, that's even better!

 

[Kev250R]

Got a chuckle from other's experience with the Beginners course. Makes my own failure at practical exercise portion of my Beginners course easier to take LOL. My last two wheeled experience was lets say "many decades" ago on both a Honda 50 and 75 (early 1970's?). Been riding ATV's off and on road for about 15 years (you can ride them on road legally in S. America where I most recently lived) so figured "how hard can it be riding a CT125?". Even had my LEO certs for ATV's offroad in NM. So bought the bike and signed up for course here in OK. Then found out I couldn't take course on my own bike and got "issued" a Honda Grom with clutch (ouch!). Took class a few weeks ago when temps were over 100. Sweated profusely and learned a lot, especially that I was no where close to being able to pass the "practical" test, which I didn't of course. In retrospect I wished I had realized that you must have some basic ability to ride prior to just showing up cold to take the class. As a day and a half of riding experience at least at my advance age, isn't going to get you thru that practical. Still a good course and I learned a lot. Practicing now in the school parking lot across the street from the house at every opportunity and after lots more practice I'll just go thru the DMV licensing exams and keep hitting them till I pass.

It's funny you mention that you couldn't use your own bike for the course, I couldn't either (which for me at the time was a good thing since back then all I had was a heavy Harley which I never really ever got the hang of). The course I went to used Yamaha TW200's (has a clutch but really forgiving, not easy to stall or lunge). I liked the TW I was issued so much that I decided I was going to buy one, so I did about two weeks after I finished the class. While it's not the same TW I bought back then (at one point I owned three of them!) I do still have a TW I ride reguarlly (rode it to dinner last night and am getting ready to take it on week-long dual-sport ride in Utah in a couple of months). I'm anxious to see how the TW compares to the CT on the Fire Roads I ride.

 

[Opfor656]

It's funny you mention that you couldn't use your own bike for the course, I couldn't either (which for me at the time was a good thing since back then all I had was a heavy Harley which I never really ever got the hang of). The course I went to used Yamaha TW200's (has a clutch but really forgiving, not easy to stall or lunge). I liked the TW I was issued so much that I decided I was going to buy one, so I did about two weeks after I finished the class. While it's not the same TW I bought back then (at one point I owned three of them!) I do still have a TW I ride reguarlly (rode it to dinner last night and am getting ready to take it on week-long dual-sport ride in Utah in a couple of months). I'm anxious to see how the TW compares to the CT on the Fire Roads I ride.

I did figure out that I hated the Grom as it was way too easy to stall out, two of the three in my class had same problem. It drove me crazy from start to finish.

 

[SneakyDingo]

Some of it is getting used to, and some of it is personalizing the bike to your own needs. It will usually be harder to ride a bike that's not yours. The more of these muscle memory / consciously learned things that you figure out, the easier other things are to learn too.

Back when I was doing it they were using Honda Rebel 250's and Yamaha XT225's. Never took the Rebel but the XT225 was like the TW200, great bike to take the training on. The biggest downside was they fitted it with knobbies for pavement work. I originally learned on one of the best beginner bikes I've ever ridden, the Honda NIghthawk 250. You could almost figure 8 that bike inside a parking space.

 

[Kev250R]

Some of it is getting used to, and some of it is personalizing the bike to your own needs. It will usually be harder to ride a bike that's not yours. The more of these muscle memory / consciously learned things that you figure out, the easier other things are to learn too.

Back when I was doing it they were using Honda Rebel 250's and Yamaha XT225's. Never took the Rebel but the XT225 was like the TW200, great bike to take the training on. The biggest downside was they fitted it with knobbies for pavement work. I originally learned on one of the best beginner bikes I've ever ridden, the Honda NIghthawk 250. You could almost figure 8 that bike inside a parking space.

Agreed. A friend of mine who took the class and started riding about the time I did bought a Nighthawk for his first bike just before he took the course. It was a good bike for him.

I work as a contractor at a Military base a couple of days a week. MC's are popular there and it seems at least a couple of days a week they have a MSF Class going. Although they must be allowed to use their own bikes because it's always a wide variety of bikes I see at their course.

 

[Kev250R]

I did figure out that I hated the Grom as it was way too easy to stall out, two of the three in my class had same problem. It drove me crazy from start to finish.

I bought a Grom not long after they came-out. I liked mine (I put 3K Miles on it before selling it to get my KTM Duke) however I always thought that since that since that bike was popular with new riders, they shouldn't have put a manual clutch on it. I don't recall stalling that bike often, though it was the first bike I'd ever owned/ridden with ABS and there were times I wish I could have turned it off. Had I not sold it I had planned on making a dual-sport out of mine!

 

[jBIRDt]

Yesterday I attended the MSF Advanced Rider Course on my CT125. We had only five riders with two instructors on a hot and sunny day. Much to everyone’s surprise, the CT held its own on the short course with speeds never exceeding 25-30. This is a new class in Vermont and has gotten very low enrollment (the next classes will likely be cancelled if they don’t get more people to sign up). I recommend this MSF ARC wherever you can find it offered- it focused on rapid braking, accident avoidance, and lots of cornering with discussion and tons of exercises. I got so low in the turns I was dragging my foot pegs! While some of these actions can be practiced by yourself in the street or parking lot, you will gain a lot by having the performance stress of doing it in a class, and the feedback from skilled trainers. And don’t be afraid to show up on a Trail, our mini motos are more than capable. At the end of the day I was exhausted but gained a lot of respect for what you can do on a Trail 125, and sharpened my skills handling a motorcycle. Has anyone else taken the Advanced Rider Training?

We attend MSF experienced rider class every spring as a refresher. Polishes the off-season dust and supports the ABATE program. Also maintains safety course insurance discount

 

[STUBBORN]

I found a suspected MSF course in a closed Concord Trailways BUS terminal parking lot in LondonDerry, NH next to Route 93 exit 4 Route 102.
The lot has many markings painted in different colors on the asphalt including 2 decreasing diameter S turns, 2 U turn rectangles both 20 and 24 feet plus 4 tight turn tests, 2 swerve tests, a large oval, a large figure 8 and a sudden stop measured up to 30 feet, plus many x. + and o marks meant for cones? There are 2 rented containers probably filled with small motorcycles used for the MSF class. I shall add a picture tomorrow.

 

[STUBBORN]

Here are the MSF training lot pictures.