Slow speed turns on bike without a hand-operated clutch

[OlderNow]

I recently posted this item on the MCRider.com forum:

I recently picked up my 2021 Honda Trail 125. I sold my last motorcycle over 20 years ago, so I am back in beginner mode reviving old skills and learning new ones. One of the things different about this motorcycle is that is has a centrifugal clutch – No Clutch Lever. As such, there is no way to make slow turns (u-turns, figure-eights, parking lot maneuvers, etc.) with the clutch “in the friction zone”. Any suggestions for modifying technique for slow speed turns with this motorcycle?

I got good responses, all of which suggested to apply the rear brake during slow speed turns.

I am wondering what riders of the Honda Trail 125 have to say about their techniques for slow-speed maneuvers. Did any riders adjust their Trail 125 to enhance the use of their slow-speed techniques? If you use the rear brake while making slow-speed maneuvers, please share your experience and tips for learning this technique.

Thanks

 

[AZ7000']

I put my foot down…

 

[James]

I would expand on this question by saying, how do you drive really slow with this bike? I am giving myself whiplash trying to manage the throttle.

 

[OlderNow]

I would expand on this question by saying, how do you drive really slow with this bike? I am giving myself whiplash trying to manage the throttle.

Not to get too far ahead of other comments and suggestions for slow riding maneuvers on a Trail 125, I reccommend viewing this video:

It is an interview with a guy with decades of Honda trail bike experience and his review of the new model. At 10:21 to 10:41 minutes he demostrates slow speed turns, using the rear brake. I'm interested in other Trail 125 rider's experience with this technique. What I think is going on is that with some pressure on the rear brake the throttle response can be smoothed out.

 

[dmonkey]

That video is an excellent demonstration.
Motorcycles turn by leaning. If you need to work your way up to leaning the bike, try doing a parking lot weave or slalom exercise, which should give you some practice with dipping the bike into a lean. For low speed turning you can gently drag the rear brake while giving it a little throttle and some lean angle to counter balance. If you're doing a U-turn rather than a circle you can also reduce the space the turn takes by counter steering before starting the turn. If you're okay with going faster, you can give it more lean angle and not touch the rear brake. With the steering at full lock the bike can do circles within 2 parking space widths with or without the rear brake being used. Compared to other bikes without a hand clutch like the new Honda GoldWing CVT the CT125 requires much less lean angle because it's so much lighter that the rider's body weight does more to counter balance it. Because of its (relative) light weight the CT125 can also carry more speed through a corner, and there's less lateral force to cause you to lose traction and lowside.

For reference the turning radius on the CT125 is 1.9 m or ~6.2 ft

 

[Misterprofessionality]

You dont really need a friction zone because you can't stall this little donkey. Just drag your year brake, modulate throttle,and lean, and point your chin and your eyes hard in the direction you want to go. Chin over wrist. You can make some wicked tight little figure 8s and uturns with this bike.

 

[SneakyDingo]

There is a way to feather the clutch slightly using the foot lever. I wasn't able to do it consistently; and I'm sure some fancy and more familiar/skilled rider than I am can gently rest their foot on the shift lever just right and get the engine to partially disengage, so they can bring the revs up on a truly steep hill (see: anyone who's tried going over Engineer Pass with a CT of any year/spec). That being said, I don't think I will be investing in that technique because the only place I'd use it is off road, and at least on my practice runs it requires far more finesse than I could do off road. EDIT: I would rather engineer around the problem and use a -1T or -2T sprocket temporarily, the entire swap process is very quick and worth it for such challenging terrain.

For this bike, this was exactly how I did it, minus leaning because I was trying to also execute these turns at very, very low speeds:

You dont really need a friction zone because you can't stall this little donkey. Just drag your year brake, modulate throttle,and lean, and point your chin and your eyes hard in the direction you want to go. Chin over wrist. You can make some wicked tight little figure 8s and uturns with this bike.

At the end of 30 minutes I was able to do the turns at or below 1 mph indicated, and straight line riding at or below walking speed.

Related to this and part of why I feel so confident doing this:
We used to have a "low speed crawl" challenge at the old AHG Racetrack that can be practiced in any parking lot. Straight line, 10m/33 ft, longest time wins. The passing grade was 10m, 10s, and the slower you go the harder it gets. My time was 28s, and was in the top 5 of the course that day (winner was a Suzuki Across 250, 31s the day I did my course). The course record holder for this challenge was a fully loaded Australia Post rider on a CT110, at 51s.

 

[Kritou]

I asked the question of Eddie in Thailand and he said that trying to use the semi auto clutch as a manual one on rough terrain was a non starter as at that stage of the game your feet are mostly on the ground!!

 

[James]

There is a way to feather the clutch slightly using the foot lever. I wasn't able to do it consistently; and I'm sure some fancy and more familiar/skilled rider than I am can gently rest their foot on the shift lever just right and get the engine to partially disengage, so they can bring the revs up on a truly steep hill (see: anyone who's tried going over Engineer Pass with a CT of any year/spec). That being said, I don't think I will be investing in that technique because the only place I'd use it is off road, and at least on my practice runs it requires far more finesse than I could do off road. EDIT: I would rather engineer around the problem and use a -1T or -2T sprocket temporarily, the entire swap process is very quick and worth it for such challenging terrain.

For this bike, this was exactly how I did it, minus leaning because I was trying to also execute these turns at very, very low speeds:


At the end of 30 minutes I was able to do the turns at or below 1 mph indicated, and straight line riding at or below walking speed.

Related to this and part of why I feel so confident doing this:
We used to have a "low speed crawl" challenge at the old AHG Racetrack that can be practiced in any parking lot. Straight line, 10m/33 ft, longest time wins. The passing grade was 10m, 10s, and the slower you go the harder it gets. My time was 28s, and was in the top 5 of the course that day (winner was a Suzuki Across 250, 31s the day I did my course). The course record holder for this challenge was a fully loaded Australia Post rider on a CT110, at 51s.

"low speed crawl" challenge sounds like fun. All I have to do is find some else in Jacksonville that has a Honda Trail.
Anyone?

 

[dmonkey]

We used to have a "low speed crawl" challenge at the old AHG Racetrack that can be practiced in any parking lot. Straight line, 10m/33 ft, longest time wins. The passing grade was 10m, 10s, and the slower you go the harder it gets. My time was 28s, and was in the top 5 of the course that day (winner was a Suzuki Across 250, 31s the day I did my course). The course record holder for this challenge was a fully loaded Australia Post rider on a CT110, at 51s.

Last time I did one of these they didn't have a rule that you had to be moving, friend of mine who rides trials simply stood at the start line with the both feet on the pegs and static balanced his KTM 350 until he was the last person in the running, then rode to the finish line.

 

[James]

I have been riding quite a bit. Getting used to slow speed maneuver's. I will say it is quite different than my Yamaha Vstar was.
What a fun bike. For some reason I feel safer and more relaxed on this little bike.

 

[mivaldes]

I've found that slow speed maneuvers in 2nd gear is MUCH smoother. Alternatively, I have also been using the rear brake in 1st gear to smooth things out as well. The surges in first gear ARE kind of annoying though.

 

[dmonkey]

1st gear being jerky is common on most bikes, it's geared for pulling away from a stop. Not having a hand clutch does make it rough on this bike though. Making sure the bike's chain tension is within spec can help reduce how jerky it is, and there are aftermarket throttle tubes that can change the throttle curve and make the throttle less responsive, but people usually go the opposite direction to make it more responsive and snappy.

 

[JS45]

"low speed crawl" challenge sounds like fun. All I have to do is find some else in Jacksonville that has a Honda Trail.
Anyone?

where are you located? I live at the beach.. where did you get your bike? I got mine from cycles of Jax

 

[STUBBORN]

1st gear being jerky is common on most bikes, it's geared for pulling away from a stop. Not having a hand clutch does make it rough on this bike though. Making sure the bike's chain tension is within spec can help reduce how jerky it is, and there are aftermarket throttle tubes that can change the throttle curve and make the throttle less responsive, but people usually go the opposite direction to make it more responsive and snappy.

I need to remove the play in the throttle
and then check on the chain slack.
Because it is a brand new bike,
these adjustments were not performed.
I ordered a new DID 428VX chain from NAULT's.
I asked the parts department to ensure it has 108 links.
After I install this new X ring chain, I shall definitely
check on chain slack.

Unsure if this reduces the jerky first gear but every little bit helps.