testing the efie with an actual wideband

[m in sc]

I found my doebeck narrow to wideband adapter, and figured id give it a test real quick to see where im at on my bike. as expected, its 12.6 or so wot sustained, (a 100% throttle) and between 13 and 13.6 other areas with light cruise tapping 14 on occasion on steady low throttle. the efie is set to 26 mv, thought i had ot at 25 but i dont think .01 is going to make much of a difference.

fwiw, you use the datalogger wire to tie into the stock 02 wire in the harness since you remove the narrow band. thi yelids the same running voltage as a stock narrowband.

i did this to verify and give an actual wide band reading of what i had done. so, yes, 25-26 will tell the ecm to target these afrs.

i also checked mileage im at 84-86 mpg w this setup and i am not easy on it.

I did the testing w this setup today and then put the narrow band back in and strode, right as rain.

adapter in:

wide band installed:

temp mount.


so, the downside to this adapter is it doesnt read well at idle, same thing w the grom, but as soon as rpm goes over 2000 or so, its fine and accurate vs one in the actual exhaust pipe, i tested this on my grom actually (ran 2 widebands one for the power commander and a second to monitor).



point being, regardless of the setup, 25mv will target a safe afr on the trail ecm. IF it runs lean, you need a bigger injector as you have probably maxed out the one in there. Im running a pcx150 with a 143 and 238 and intake and exhaust. so, hope this helps somebody and eliminates speculation.

 

[CTExplorer]

I found my doebeck narrow to wideband adapter, and figured id give it a test real quick to see where im at on my bike. as expected, its 12.6 or so wot sustained, (a 100% throttle) and between 13 and 13.6 other areas with light cruise tapping 14 on occasion on steady low throttle. the efie is set to 26 mv, thought i had ot at 25 but i dont think .01 is going to make much of a difference.

fwiw, you use the datalogger wire to tie into the stock 02 wire in the harness since you remove the narrow band. thi yelids the same running voltage as a stock narrowband.

i did this to verify and give an actual wide band reading of what i had done. so, yes, 25-26 will tell the ecm to target these afrs.

i also checked mileage im at 84-86 mpg w this setup and i am not easy on it.

I did the testing w this setup today and then put the narrow band back in and strode, right as rain.

adapter in:

wide band installed:

temp mount.


so, the downside to this adapter is it doesnt read well at idle, same thing w the grom, but as soon as rpm goes over 2000 or so, its fine and accurate vs one in the actual exhaust pipe, i tested this on my grom actually (ran 2 widebands one for the power commander and a second to monitor).



point being, regardless of the setup, 25mv will target a safe afr on the trail ecm. IF it runs lean, you need a bigger injector as you have probably maxed out the one in there. Im running a pcx150 with a 143 and 238 and intake and exhaust. so, hope this helps somebody and eliminates speculation.

Excellent information and really appreciate your time, knowledge, and contributions to the CT 125 knowledge base. I used to tune FI Honda cars using a wide band and "Hondata" system so know the importance of "knowing" vs guessing. Been waiting for something like this or a proven aftermarket fuel management solution.

I know you've documented it in multiple threads but could you recap the BBK and cam you are using (links would be incredible ). After seeing some people have issues with BBK kits id like to go with what has proven reliable. Also, has anyone made a good tutorial of the BBK and cam install. I NEED to do this as it seems it would make the bike 100% what I'm looking for at my 165lb rider weight seeing your results but have not done a lot of small engine work and would like to get details on the specifics. My main area of concern is properly installing and gapping the rings but seeing a full tutorial would give me 100% confidence to perform the upgrades.

 

[m in sc]

I have it pretty spread out infowise for sure, BUT.. ina nutshell look below.

I'll be honest, both the takegawa and the yuminashi setup ring gaps were in spec out of the box for me, i so left them alone. in the past and on my 2 strokes, i will usually adjust gap with a file if need be, and it can be tricky. there's tons of vids on youtube i am sure showing how to do this, but TBH i havent had to do it on these.

as far as the bbk/motor mods (not including the manual clutch as that had zero effect):

takegawa high volume oil pump
143 yumashi (after TWO takegawas sets failed due to oiling , piston design, even webike agreed and refunded them)
238 cam. .rocker lash set to .004" intake, .007" exhaust
adjustable cam gear, 2 degrees advanced. highly recommend the gear if nothing else its way stronger than a stock one).
26mm throttle body
koso roller all metal chain tensioner/idler
genuine honda pcx150 injector
efie set to 25~26 mv
nk racing intake/stock airbox/modified air filter to flow more (paper element removed, large sheet of black uni foam filter material placed on stock panel with 6 5/8 holes drilled into back of stock filter panel with uni filter material also covering that).
aftermarket free flowing exhaust, almost any would do better than stock as long as there's no catalytic converter in it.
#8 series spark plug. stock ignition and gearing. .

zero head porting, but did gasket match the intake and pehonolic spacer to each other.

i would imagine this would work really well for you since i outweigh you by 50 ish lbs.

Is it the fastest setup? nah. does it have lots of midrange and not stress the motor? yup. a 164 would probably yield better result slightly, but i have always felt the ignition map is the BIG holdback on these motors.

 

[CTExplorer]

I have it pretty spread out infowise for sure, BUT.. ina nutshell look below.

I'll be honest, both the takegawa and the yuminashi setup ring gaps were in spec out of the box for me, i so left them alone. in the past and on my 2 strokes, i will usually adjust gap with a file if need be, and it can be tricky. there's tons of vids on youtube i am sure showing how to do this, but TBH i havent had to do it on these.

as far as the bbk/motor mods (not including the manual clutch as that had zero effect):

takegawa high volume oil pump
143 yumashi (after TWO takegawas sets failed due to oiling , piston design, even webike agreed and refunded them)
238 cam. .rocker lash set to .004" intake, .007" exhaust
adjustable cam gear, 2 degrees advanced. highly recommend the gear if nothing else its way stronger than a stock one).
26mm throttle body
koso roller all metal chain tensioner/idler
genuine honda pcx150 injector
efie set to 25~26 mv
nk racing intake/stock airbox/modified air filter to flow more (paper element removed, large sheet of black uni foam filter material placed on stock panel with 6 5/8 holes drilled into back of stock filter panel with uni filter material also covering that).
aftermarket free flowing exhaust, almost any would do better than stock as long as there's no catalytic converter in it.
#8 series spark plug. stock ignition and gearing. .

zero head porting, but did gasket match the intake and pehonolic spacer to each other.

i would imagine this would work really well for you since i outweigh you by 50 ish lbs.

Is it the fastest setup? nah. does it have lots of midrange and not stress the motor? yup. a 164 would probably yield better result slightly, but i have always felt the ignition map is the BIG holdback on these motors.

Thank you very much

 

[Samg7]

@m in sc you mean 0.26V or 260mV, correct?

 

[dmonkey]

I suspect it might not read well at idle due to the spacing added by the adapter. It's not directly in the exhaust flow so changes will have a slow response in reading.

It's a common (illegal) emissions circumvention for catalyst system efficiency DTCs on cars. Install a non-fouler (spark plug spacer) on the sensor(s) that are downstream of the cat and it will smooth out their reading. A stable downstream AFR is a condition the ECU looks for to indicate the catalyst system is working as expected. The emissions stuff isn't relevant to the CT125, just to the concept of putting a spacer or adapter in front of the o2 sensor.

 

[m in sc]

yeah they read better downstream and since the adapter has a smaller hole than a typical wb bung the flow across the sensor is very turbulent at idle.

as far as the reading, 0.26v.

 

[Samg7]

you know you wanna make an AFR table with different efie settings for us

 

[m in sc]

not really. lol. I gave the values, theres going to be some differences but anywhere between 22-27 will be safe target range. the issue as we all saw is duty cycle of the injector, and the only way to know if thats right is to monitor it. IMHO the best way is with a standalone afr since they don't make a power commander for this thing, or one of the other standalone ecms (which i have no direct experience with on the trail). id also avoid open pod filters unless you are going to jam a big injector in there to start with.

 

[TRF90]

Having done all my bike tuning in the carbureted analog era, I'm a bit in awe of you guys throwing around lingo I've never heard before and barely understand. Carry on!

 

[m in sc]

I tuned my carbureted big block 66 galaxie with the same afr gauge. like the exact same one. just .02.

 

[selly]

I've installed an adjustable cam sprocket and advanced it by 2 degrees (moved the rotatating part counter clockwise 1 tick). I've not been able to get the cutout notch on the rotating part of the sprocket to line up with the engine marker. If I move the sprocket 1 tooth either way it doesn't line up with the engine marker, am I doing something wrong ?

 

[m in sc]

are you lining up w the TDC mark or the f mark? needs to be at the TDC mark.

 

[selly]

are you lining up w the TDC mark or the f mark? needs to be at the TDC mark.

I'm lining up TDC, best I can get is advanced 4 or more degrees, or retarded by similar. It seems controlled by tooth pitch.

 

[dmonkey]

Which adjustable cam sprocket are you using, and are you sure the degree marks you are using are for a 125cc and not 110cc engine? I ask because the same part can be used in both engines, just with different mark indexing.

 

[m in sc]

i never had an issue. this is the yuminashi one, correct? i installed it at zero, then adjusted the cam degree offset after it was all bolted in. the spark plug is out, correct? put it in at zero, roll the motor over a few times counter clockwise as you are looking at it, make sure the cam tensioner has the oil primed right, then recheck.

 

[selly]

i never had an issue. this is the yuminashi one, correct? i installed it at zero, then adjusted the cam degree offset after it was all bolted in. the spark plug is out, correct? put it in at zero, roll the motor over a few times counter clockwise as you are looking at it, make sure the cam tensioner has the oil primed right, then recheck.

Yes its the Yuminashi one. So you install as standard, not advanced or retarded, tighten the bokt then unlock the allen screws and rotate the central part of the sprocket 2 degrees but only after priming the tensioner? I set the 2 degrees advanced out of the engine then fitted the sprocket. Only other differenceis I've not re primed the tensioner yet.

 

[m in sc]

yes that's exactly how i did it, just to make sure i had it in correctly. they are never 100% dead nuts spot on but usually super super close.

 

[DaleT]

Hi All, Question for everyone who has installed the efie device, How much of the body panels/plastics were necessary to remove for the installation? Does the ecm actually have to be fully exposed in order to tap into the wires? I've recently just got my efie device in the mail and want to get an idea of what I'm getting myself into! lol Other mods going on the bike include... Yoshi straight cyclone pipe, pcx150 injector and a s1cam(DHM). No plans for a bbk just yet... possibly in the future. Maybe adding a less restrictive intake in the future as well? Any thoughts or input appriciated! Thanks all! This has been a great forum with tons of info for these awesome machines! BTW... mine=2023 greenie

 

[selly]

yes that's exactly how i did it, just to make sure i had it in correctly. they are never 100% dead nuts spot on but usually super super close.

Thanks you've helped me a fair bit over past few months as I've been making mods to my bike and I appreciate it, if I lived nearby I'd buy you a beer.