Trail 125 or XR150L

[Cpd419]

Your fee listing was very astute good sir. Very astute.

 

[vintagegarage]

It's for all the crybabies out there who wanted a Trail 150, with a five-speed, a real clutch, and are so freakishly tall that their ass hits the grab bar on the rear carrier on the Trail 125. Plain and simple. It's street legal and has all of your hot buttons. Stop the whining about the Trail 125, your tears have been answered.... LOL

 

[SneakyDingo]

I took a really deep look into it and I think there's only two things about this bike that I'd either change or want to change. It's not EFI, and it uses a drum brake on the rear. Aside from those two things, I think the one I actually care about is the drum brake on the rear just for self servicing reasons, and if there was an easy conversion I think I could grow to love the carbureted engine.

 

[oldskool]

I took a really deep look into it and I think there's only two things about this bike that I'd either change or want to change. It's not EFI, and it uses a drum brake on the rear. Aside from those two things, I think the one I actually care about is the drum brake on the rear just for self servicing reasons, and if there was an easy conversion I think I could grow to love the carbureted engine.

I could live with the rear drum but the carburetor killed any interest I have in the bike..

 

[m in sc]

I view the carburetor as a plus. simpler, easier.

 

[oldskool]

I view the carburetor as a plus. simpler, easier.

Carburetors are easier to work on when something goes wrong. Good thing because something will go wrong

 

[m in sc]

no it wont. lol. they don't magically break. the fear or carburetors makes me laugh at people, i mean really. especially stock ones.

I have almost 30 motorcycles carbs in use, right now, of which about 11 are over 50 years old and they are all rock solid. modified, stock, etc. they dont 'just go bad' or 'clog up in 2 weeks because of ethanol'. Carb issues come from sitting for LONG periods, like a year, but usually from people that don't know what they are doing monkeying with them unnecessarily.

on the OP point: i stopped in at the local dealership, looks like they are getting them late april.

 

[oldskool]

no it wont. lol. they don't magically break. the fear or carburetors makes me laugh at people, i mean really. especially stock ones.

Not fear experience. Because you can keep something going with more care and maintenance doesn't make it better let alone equal to something that just keeps working with less care needed.

 

[m in sc]

describe the more maintenance? i've had bikes for over 15 years i've not had to go thru the carbs but the original cleaning. wait till an fi oring starts leaking, fuel pump fails, 02 sensor clogs, a fuel injector fails. more points of possible failure on fi, that's just a fact. especially as they age.

 

[Cardinal Direction]

describe the more maintenance? i've had bikes for over 15 years i've not had to go thru the carbs but the original cleaning. wait till an fi oring starts leaking, fuel pump fails, 02 sensor clogs, a fuel injector fails. more points of possible failure on fi, that's just a fact. especially as they age.

Agreed. From my experience, which is admittedly not terribly expansive, disuse or a rusty tank are the only things that have cause me issues on carbs. Take it apart, clean it and fixed. I say that but fixing four carbs on a cb750 is a PITA!

 

[SneakyDingo]

I view the maintenance as "different" rather than more or less. A carburetor can actually be rebuilt. IMO EFI is at a disadvantage for any situation where you actually do have to service over replacing the fuel system - as @m in sc says, over a long time period of ownership and any time you're in an area without excellent quality fuel.

There's one or two situations locally for me that give EFI a slight advantage. The things that give the edge to carbureted bikes aren't that common here (bad quality fuel, fairly consistent altitude, etc.). We have enough large altitude range rides that are slightly better for EFI without adjustments, but nothing unmanageable on either.

The reason I'm ok with the XR150L now is in the past year, I've spent the past year investing in the right areas that owning and servicing a carbureted bike is actually reasonable now. I can't really describe that well other than my local stores are very poorly equipped to handle anything outside of the utter bare minimum, so unless you wanted to spend a lot of money making mistakes, finding the right people took some time. You had to know a guy, and now I know a guy. I'd also just use the bike in a way that the altitude range wouldn't be an issue - I'd take the CT125 on that ride, or accept I'd have to do a little adjusting if I was really worried.

 

[m in sc]

another point: any kind of mod:

carb: change a jet
literally 30 minutes max and 5 bucks.

efi: spend many hundreds on an efi controller that may or may not work. example: 4 mos of troubleshooting on my cb1100 when they sent me a power commander 6 that just didn't work right (they def didn't have the base program right as it took them 6 firmware updates and a live session with me on the phone to get it right) & i had to hound them endlessly.

Ive had lots of experience with both. they both have their ups and downs but the carb is long term way cheaper to own and much more repair friendly. wait till the ecms aren't available and one cooks. been there too.

does efi -work- overall better? absolutely out of the box it is more user friendly for a while. after a while.. nope.

 

[SneakyDingo]

Very true. I have no desire to run most bikes outside of their stock configuration unless I have a very good reason to, so it's easy for me to forget that power commanders vs. adjusting a carburetor are a thing. Definitely a big +1 for carburetors.

 

[oldskool]

Maintenance .....poor choice of wording, repair is more to the point. Clogged jets, soggy float worn out float needle, worn throttle shaft.....sure you can work on carbs. Let me put it in focus I have never had a single issue ever with EFI ever. I had a Ford F150 with 170000 plus miles that ran like a top until the head gasket dumped enough coolant into cylinder #1 that it hydro locked and ruined it. Had a factory short block put in and thought i'd put in new injectors while it was all apart. The mech told me not to waste my money they were still fine. I drove it for many more years with no problems before I sold it. Still see it around town and the last time I talked to the fella that bought it the truck had just shy of 400000 miles still running on the original injectors. I have never had any problems with any fuel injected systems ever. I cannot say the same for carbs. They are antiquated at best IMHO. I still have plenty of things that have them and yes I can fix the little buggers when they have their issues but given the choice I'll take injection over a carb if the option is there. Fiddling around to keep stuff running lost its charm for me too long ago

 

[Cardinal Direction]

Hey man more power to you, but if I could repair a 40 year old carb for 5$ and some carb cleaner at 13 years old I’ll take simple with a little more work. Not saying I don’t love my EFI on my CT but my C 70 cub that’s older than I am been running on the same carb forever and probably will until I’m dead.

 

[m in sc]

i had an f150 w over 200k, it was fine as well, as is my edge i currently have. thats not the point. But...

had a z31 (actually 2) that every injector leaked on at some point, stepson had a volvo 850 that 3 injectors went bad on, buddy has a 67 merc moneterry with a 390 i helped him put a new $1200 Holley sniper efi set up on that was bad out of the box, back driver injector had broken wires from the factory... we can swap stories all day long. but i have wayyy more antique carbs running right now on bikes than most people have ever owned in their life, so, sorry. I completely disagree. the same thing that causes a leaking needle and seat is the same thing that causes a clogged injector: dirty fuel. Do i run fuel filters on all my bikes? yup.

explain what a soggy float is. a brass one that has leaked? its a 13 dollar fix. most are closed cell synthetics.

only worn throttle shafts ive typically seen were on 1st gen Goldwing's and SU carbs on brit cars, which were junk from new anyway, and sacked out quadrajets.

But, this is a 2023 honda model with a carb. the 22 dr650 i looked at buying also has a carb. so, they cant be all that bad if 2 of the biggest mc companies are willing to produce new vehicles with them.

 

[dmonkey]

I imagine the XR150L's carburetor and rear drum brake play a significant role in keeping the cost down, which is much of the appeal of the bike, same as with a TW200. Simple stuff that's been around forever and can be worked on with basic tools available almost anywhere. At that price point there isn't much competition between other entry-level street-legal motorcycles with a manual transmission that come from a name brand with a large dealer & parts network. It's a common criteria for some in the ADV community that a "good" dual-sport bike is one that you can kick over without crying after, you pick it up from its dirt nap, give it a once over, and go on your way. I feel like that applies well to learner bikes too, and this would be a great learner bike for someone just getting their motorcycle license. Get some time in off-road, take the MSF Basic Rider Course to move up to street riding, and then get some street riding experience in on this bike. A potential downside there is that the XR150L doesn't have front ABS, which is a good safety feature for a new rider who is just learning progressive braking and may have to unlearn a bad instinct of grabbing a handful of brake for emergency stopping. It doesn't just have beginner appeal though, it's a cheap Honda, could make a nice 2nd or 32nd bike.

If you're looking for EFI and disc brakes, there are some pretty nice bikes that come from the factory with those, their cost just reflects it.

 

[imacbo]

I have a DR650 its a great bike but it is a workout in the woods. I have a Trail 125 and its a lot of fun in the woods but it does have its limitation. I would love to try the TW to see if it would be what I think which is right between the DR and the Trail. The TW is my next bike.

 

[oldskool]

i had an f150 w over 200k, it was fine as well, as is my edge i currently have. thats not the point. But...

had a z31 (actually 2) that every injector leaked on at some point, stepson had a volvo 850 that 3 injectors went bad on, buddy has a 67 merc moneterry with a 390 i helped him put a new $1200 Holley sniper efi set up on that was bad out of the box, back driver injector had broken wires from the factory... we can swap stories all day long. but i have wayyy more antique carbs running right now on bikes than most people have ever owned in their life, so, sorry. I completely disagree. the same thing that causes a leaking needle and seat is the same thing that causes a clogged injector: dirty fuel. Do i run fuel filters on all my bikes? yup.

explain what a soggy float is. a brass one that has leaked? its a 13 dollar fix. most are closed cell synthetics.

only worn throttle shafts ive typically seen were on 1st gen Goldwing's and SU carbs on brit cars, which were junk from new anyway, and sacked out quadrajets.

But, this is a 2023 honda model with a carb. the 22 dr650 i looked at buying also has a carb. so, they cant be all that bad if 2 of the biggest mc companies are willing to produce new vehicles with them.

You enjoy tinkering, it is in your fabric, I am over those days. I prefer the modern systems where you turn the key and go about the day's business. We have different priorities. A soggy float takes on fuel and no longer has enough buoyancy to float properly. Yes it's a cheap fix, I prefer to just drive or ride with as little drama as possible. The last bike with carbs I own is a 2007 Ural. It still starts with ease with the kick start and runs well. That didn't just happen on a Russian copy of a BMW boxer. It demands tinkering. Some of which is happening now, searching for a grermlin in the electronics keeping the headlight from coming on
It's not a personal indictment, it's my preference based on what has proven trouble free and what has not. There are solid reasons why the world has gone fuel injection for anything that doesn't need to be sold cheap.

 

[SneakyDingo]

I feel like that applies well to learner bikes too, and this would be a great learner bike for someone just getting their motorcycle license.

The bike honestly feels like a bike that was around when I was first learning how to ride. There was this one sub-250cc bike that was a pretty popular choice at the time, the Yamaha Scorpio Z 225, and then when I came to the USA and re-did my test, the XT225 or XT250, I can't remember which model our local MSF had (I think it was the 225). It was far easier to ride than the ZZR250 with its huge turning circle.

I think the appeal to me comes from it having many of the aspects of the CT125 that I appreciate, except it attracts less attention.