Folding Crate

[Colorado Trail]

Easiest part of today's project, medium Big Ant folding crate. I added some screw on rubber feet to the bottom to protect the paint and am planning on riding with a bungee net over the top to keep the crate folded up.

 

[James]

Easiest part of today's project, medium Big Ant folding crate. I added some screw on rubber feet to the bottom to protect the paint and am planning on riding with a bungee net over the tip to keep the crate folded up.

Cool. Where did you get that crate?

 

[Colorado Trail]

Ebay, you can do a search for Big Ant IP543630R.

 

[Colorado Trail]

I also replaced the tires and added a front and side rack over the weekend. I'm still waiting for my handguards and am contemplating adding some small lights for after work camping trips.

 

[SneakyDingo]

The billion dollar question that every thread will ask: How'd you attach it?

I'm about to do this myself on a non-folding crate. I am planning on punching strategic holes through some ABS sheets (which will provide a floor to the crate) and screwing down using 6mm nuts. I bought some 6mm x 45's but I'm not sure if they're long enough, that will depend on the crate and any protective decoration to the rack. The store was out of anything longer than that so I hope it'll work.

 

[Colorado Trail]

Originally, I was going to drill out the bottom of the crate and attach it using some stainless 1.25" fender washers and stainless m6x1 bolts, it worked fine, but the crate wouldn't fold flat with the bolt heads sticking up. The bolts would work fine for a non-folding crate, but I ended up using the fancy Panduit dome top zip ties with the metal tooth.

 

[SneakyDingo]

This is my plan to create a marking guide for the screw holes into the plastic. Screw the 6x1's into the rack until it's roughly flush, then add these little 3D printed doohickeys to the head, put some cardboard over the top and push down to leave a point imprint in the cardboard. Then use those to transfer the pattern to whatever I want to drill a hole into.

 

[Colorado Trail]

That'll work, in the past I've just ground a point onto some appropriately sized allthread to accomplish the same thing.

 

[dmonkey]

Y'all are fancy When I mounted an InstaCrate I taped some paper over the rack, punched a pen through the bolt holes, and then moved the paper over to the inside of the InstaCrate and drilled the holes. I later redid it because I found that the crate being flush with the bar at the front of the rear rack was a bit too close to my back and hit it on occasion. With my Givi top case setup I now have a backrest cushion so it's not a problem.

 

[SneakyDingo]

Weirdly that was one of my first thoughts. We only have fine art soft felt tip pens in the house. So of course, overengineering with a 3D printer was the next thing that came to mind .

I'll be taping the cardboard to the underside of the box, then sitting on the bike before lining everything up and poking holes, so that I know how it will feel. The overall process of making that plastic thing was about 2 minutes (the print took longer but that part is fully automated).

 

[joseywales]

Here's my Big Ant folding crate. I use it to haul my dog

 

[SneakyDingo]

This is my plan to create a marking guide for the screw holes into the plastic. Screw the 6x1's into the rack until it's roughly flush, then add these little 3D printed doohickeys to the head, put some cardboard over the top and push down to leave a point imprint in the cardboard. Then use those to transfer the pattern to whatever I want to drill a hole into.

I keep forgetting to share an update: This worked great. Got my template from one of the numerous Amazon boxes we had lying around. It's working very well as a generalized platform to experiment on before going with a more permanent enclosed solution.

The full list I ended up using in order from rack upwards:

• Window Sealing tape to give a tiny bit of lift over rack touch points.
• KindGa Dish Drying Mat to protect the underside of the rack.
• M6 x 40mm bolts + 5/16 x 1 1/2" washers. (45mm bolts are too long; 1 1/4" flange washers are too narrow for this milk crate too)
• JEZERO Milk Crate 13x11x19
• Some cargo netting I found at Harbor Freight that's slightly small.

This is a prototyping effort. I am using a milk crate to figure out how I use this and what I want to change or improve. E.g. I mounted it towards the back because I was unsure of how I wanted to mount a fuel can - between the rider and the crate, or behind the crate. Test fit by hooking the bolts through the holes (but not screwing it on) shown here. I'm leaning towards behind the crate.

The biggest downside so far has been the doggie backpack I use rests on the top, which transfers a noticeable amount of vibrations into the bag. The first time it happened I thought the dog was shaking from being on the motorcycle the first time (either from being upset or being cold) but it was just the bag touching the rack.

Generally speaking it's either way too small or way too big, but usually in the too big direction. The closest I've come to "perfection" was 6 wine bottles, 2x 6 packs of beer and two pizzas from the store on a recent grocery trip run, and just before I did said run, two DeWalt drills in their cases and some coffee beans from a friend. The DeWalt drills would definitely require some thinking if I didn't have the crate, but for grocery trip runs my cargo bicycle is a better choice in almost every situation.

I'm currently leaning in one of 4 options, in order.

1. The original plan was to go with the Apache 4800 case (or equivalent) feeding SAE cabling in + SAE adapters inside the case using @G19Tony's approach; adding a top mounted Rotopax mount for a fuel can. I sacrifice generalized luggage and possibly some waterproofing, gain slightly secure powered storage. Mostly I am unsure of the wisdom of a half-full rotopax can lying flat on its side, exposed to sun in Washington / Oregon summer, doing 4000 ft of elevation change, which is about the worst case scenario I can imagine of my regular riding. I know side racks exist; of every 100 rides, the rotopax would only be joining me on 1, and I'm engineering/planning accordingly.
2. Continue to use the "prototyping" milk crate as is, try pool noodles or rags + zip ties to dampen the vibration transfer to the doggo bag, with this being a more permanent than prototype option.
3. Switching to the Big Ant crate @joseywales uses is only marginally larger in each dimension at 21.26"x14.17"x11.81" vs the 19"x13"x11. There's a math thing where a 14" pizza is 36% bigger than a 12" pizza because surface area is radius squared, and that applies here too. Despite having relatively small changes, the difference in volume between the two crates is 58.30L vs. 44.52L (+31%), and I also gain the ability to fold it flat so it doesn't vibrate the doggo backpack.
4. Go all in on the Milwaukee Packout system. The most versatile, most heavy, and most expensive option. Crate when I need it, Secured box when I need it. I'm fat, so being concerned about weight is a serious concern. If I lost like 60 lbs this would be pretty viable. I keep this option on principle though, because this idea could also be realized by a milk crate or the 4800 case and using wingnuts, if I was ever to figure out how to get the bolts to thread upwards through the bottom instead of top-down, or generally just making the process of swapping cases less annoying.

 

[joseywales]

I keep forgetting to share an update: This worked great. Got my template from one of the numerous Amazon boxes we had lying around. It's working very well as a generalized platform to experiment on before going with a more permanent enclosed solution.

The full list I ended up using in order from rack upwards:

• Window Sealing tape to give a tiny bit of lift over rack touch points.
• KindGa Dish Drying Mat to protect the underside of the rack.
• M6 x 40mm bolts + 5/16 x 1 1/2" washers. (45mm bolts are too long; 1 1/4" flange washers are too narrow for this milk crate too)
• JEZERO Milk Crate 13x11x19
• Some cargo netting I found at Harbor Freight that's slightly small.

This is a prototyping effort. I am using a milk crate to figure out how I use this and what I want to change or improve. E.g. I mounted it towards the back because I was unsure of how I wanted to mount a fuel can - between the rider and the crate, or behind the crate. Test fit by hooking the bolts through the holes (but not screwing it on) shown here. I'm leaning towards behind the crate.

The biggest downside so far has been the doggie backpack I use rests on the top, which transfers a noticeable amount of vibrations into the bag. The first time it happened I thought the dog was shaking from being on the motorcycle the first time (either from being upset or being cold) but it was just the bag touching the rack.

Generally speaking it's either way too small or way too big, but usually in the too big direction. The closest I've come to "perfection" was 6 wine bottles, 2x 6 packs of beer and two pizzas from the store on a recent grocery trip run, and just before I did said run, two DeWalt drills in their cases and some coffee beans from a friend. The DeWalt drills would definitely require some thinking if I didn't have the crate, but for grocery trip runs my cargo bicycle is a better choice in almost every situation.

I'm currently leaning in one of 4 options, in order.

1. The original plan was to go with the Apache 4800 case (or equivalent) feeding SAE cabling in + SAE adapters inside the case using @G19Tony's approach; adding a top mounted Rotopax mount for a fuel can. I sacrifice generalized luggage and possibly some waterproofing, gain slightly secure powered storage. Mostly I am unsure of the wisdom of a half-full rotopax can lying flat on its side, exposed to sun in Washington / Oregon summer, doing 4000 ft of elevation change, which is about the worst case scenario I can imagine of my regular riding. I know side racks exist; of every 100 rides, the rotopax would only be joining me on 1, and I'm engineering/planning accordingly.
2. Continue to use the "prototyping" milk crate as is, try pool noodles or rags + zip ties to dampen the vibration transfer to the doggo bag, with this being a more permanent than prototype option.
3. Switching to the Big Ant crate @joseywales uses is only marginally larger in each dimension at 21.26"x14.17"x11.81" vs the 19"x13"x11. There's a math thing where a 14" pizza is 36% bigger than a 12" pizza because surface area is radius squared, and that applies here too. Despite having relatively small changes, the difference in volume between the two crates is 58.30L vs. 44.52L (+31%), and I also gain the ability to fold it flat so it doesn't vibrate the doggo backpack.
4. Go all in on the Milwaukee Packout system. The most versatile, most heavy, and most expensive option. Crate when I need it, Secured box when I need it. I'm fat, so being concerned about weight is a serious concern. If I lost like 60 lbs this would be pretty viable. I keep this option on principle though, because this idea could also be realized by a milk crate or the 4800 case and using wingnuts, if I was ever to figure out how to get the bolts to thread upwards through the bottom instead of top-down, or generally just making the process of swapping cases less annoying.

Just a note on the Big Ant crate. You won' t be able to attach the

I keep forgetting to share an update: This worked great. Got my template from one of the numerous Amazon boxes we had lying around. It's working very well as a generalized platform to experiment on before going with a more permanent enclosed solution.

The full list I ended up using in order from rack upwards:

• Window Sealing tape to give a tiny bit of lift over rack touch points.
• KindGa Dish Drying Mat to protect the underside of the rack.
• M6 x 40mm bolts + 5/16 x 1 1/2" washers. (45mm bolts are too long; 1 1/4" flange washers are too narrow for this milk crate too)
• JEZERO Milk Crate 13x11x19
• Some cargo netting I found at Harbor Freight that's slightly small.

This is a prototyping effort. I am using a milk crate to figure out how I use this and what I want to change or improve. E.g. I mounted it towards the back because I was unsure of how I wanted to mount a fuel can - between the rider and the crate, or behind the crate. Test fit by hooking the bolts through the holes (but not screwing it on) shown here. I'm leaning towards behind the crate.

The biggest downside so far has been the doggie backpack I use rests on the top, which transfers a noticeable amount of vibrations into the bag. The first time it happened I thought the dog was shaking from being on the motorcycle the first time (either from being upset or being cold) but it was just the bag touching the rack.

Generally speaking it's either way too small or way too big, but usually in the too big direction. The closest I've come to "perfection" was 6 wine bottles, 2x 6 packs of beer and two pizzas from the store on a recent grocery trip run, and just before I did said run, two DeWalt drills in their cases and some coffee beans from a friend. The DeWalt drills would definitely require some thinking if I didn't have the crate, but for grocery trip runs my cargo bicycle is a better choice in almost every situation.

I'm currently leaning in one of 4 options, in order.

1. The original plan was to go with the Apache 4800 case (or equivalent) feeding SAE cabling in + SAE adapters inside the case using @G19Tony's approach; adding a top mounted Rotopax mount for a fuel can. I sacrifice generalized luggage and possibly some waterproofing, gain slightly secure powered storage. Mostly I am unsure of the wisdom of a half-full rotopax can lying flat on its side, exposed to sun in Washington / Oregon summer, doing 4000 ft of elevation change, which is about the worst case scenario I can imagine of my regular riding. I know side racks exist; of every 100 rides, the rotopax would only be joining me on 1, and I'm engineering/planning accordingly.
2. Continue to use the "prototyping" milk crate as is, try pool noodles or rags + zip ties to dampen the vibration transfer to the doggo bag, with this being a more permanent than prototype option.
3. Switching to the Big Ant crate @joseywales uses is only marginally larger in each dimension at 21.26"x14.17"x11.81" vs the 19"x13"x11. There's a math thing where a 14" pizza is 36% bigger than a 12" pizza because surface area is radius squared, and that applies here too. Despite having relatively small changes, the difference in volume between the two crates is 58.30L vs. 44.52L (+31%), and I also gain the ability to fold it flat so it doesn't vibrate the doggo backpack.
4. Go all in on the Milwaukee Packout system. The most versatile, most heavy, and most expensive option. Crate when I need it, Secured box when I need it. I'm fat, so being concerned about weight is a serious concern. If I lost like 60 lbs this would be pretty viable. I keep this option on principle though, because this idea could also be realized by a milk crate or the 4800 case and using wingnuts, if I was ever to figure out how to get the bolts to thread upwards through the bottom instead of top-down, or generally just making the process of swapping cases less annoying.

Just a note that if you go with #3 you won't be able to attach anything heavy like the fuel contanier to the back as pictured do to the sides not being strong enough (they are a little flimsy do to the collapsible nature of it) but I have a harness that is attached to the dog from the bottom so she dosen't put any real pressure on the sides. But....when I don't have her on the bike and just doing some errands - it's really nice to be able to fold the sides up and down when needed.

 

[dmonkey]

Mostly I am unsure of the wisdom of a half-full rotopax can lying flat on its side, exposed to sun in Washington / Oregon summer, doing 4000 ft of elevation change, which is about the worst case scenario I can imagine of my regular riding. I know side racks exist; of every 100 rides, the rotopax would only be joining me on 1, and I'm engineering/planning accordingly.

My experience with Rotopax in the Colorado sun with elevation changes is that the containers will hold up fine as long as you regularly cycle the fuel that is in them and take the time to burp them on occasion. I think the burping is most important with temperature changes, filling the container with very cold fuel and then sealing it up on a hot day can cause the container to swell which risks warping it if left that away. I've also mounted Rotopax to the sides of milk crates before, the heavy duty plastic ones with metal bands on them for support work best. You can expect most plastic crates to warp and sag over time from the weight being attached to their side. Definitely best to take the Rotopax off when it's not needed.

 

[SneakyDingo]

Just a note that if you go with #3 you won't be able to attach anything heavy like the fuel contanier to the back as pictured do to the sides not being strong enough (they are a little flimsy do to the collapsible nature of it) but I have a harness that is attached to the dog from the bottom so she dosen't put any real pressure on the sides. But....when I don't have her on the bike and just doing some errands - it's really nice to be able to fold the sides up and down when needed.

I figured that might be the case, which was why I was going to visit Walmart and find one of the large ones there rather than order blind online (since the large one should be less structurally stable than the medium one). The sides look pretty beefy so this is a little surprising to me.

My experience with Rotopax in the Colorado sun with elevation changes is that the containers will hold up fine as long as you regularly cycle the fuel that is in them and take the time to burp them on occasion. I think the burping is most important with temperature changes, filling the container with very cold fuel and then sealing it up on a hot day can cause the container to swell which risks warping it if left that away. I've also mounted Rotopax to the sides of milk crates before, the heavy duty plastic ones with metal bands on them for support work best. You can expect most plastic crates to warp and sag over time from the weight being attached to their side. Definitely best to take the Rotopax off when it's not needed.

I figured this would be the case. The Rotopax will not be living on the bike most of the time and would be vented regularly. The sag was something I was factoring in, which is why the crate is positioned on the rear of the rack; if it sagged mid ride during the prototyping stage, I could switch it to the front and use the rack itself to support the weight of the fuel canister. That's 10.5 lbs of weight once you factor in the weight of the can itself, the mount itself, and the gasoline inside the can, and I wasn't sure how that would hold up on such a ride.

 

[CTGS]

Attached mine with paracord. For some reason I like attaching things to motorcycles with paracord using rolling hitch knots to cinch things down tight while allowing easy removal.

30 seconds to remove, a bit over a minute to solidly reattach, and with shelf liner material zip-tied to the bottom of the crate it doesn’t shift around at all and won’t scuff the paint.

I need to find a more permanent spacer to replace the towel, which is allowing the right amount of seat room on my grocery runs.

 

[SneakyDingo]

I need to find a more permanent spacer to replace the towel

Pool noodle?

 

[AstroStrat89]

I did the Big Ant folding before I got my Givi top case. I just used some heavy duty zip ties to tie it down on the rack. I could lift the bike by the crate so I am thinking that is secure enough.

 

[Little_Thumper_Boy]

Here's my Big Ant folding crate. I use it to haul my dog View attachment 2152

Awesome dog!

 

[rightspy]

I went a little different direction. I don’t need a huge crate on the back and wanted a little flat rack space without taking the small Big Ant crate off.