New bike, almost no oil

[backfill]

I am angry. I picked up my 2023 CT on Friday afternoon. After sorting out the paperwork, the guy at the dealership had the bike outside and running for me. We talked for a few minutes as I pulled on my gear and then I rode home. The bike now has 39 km/24 miles on it. Saturday was busy, so my new bike sat in the garage.

Sunday morning I was planning on a longer ride, but decided to check the oil before setting out. There was no oil showing on the dipstick. The manual said to run the bike for 3 to 5 minutes, then check the oil, so I did. Again, no oil showed on the dipstick. I screwed it in all the way and checked it again; still no oil showed on the dipstick. I then used a ziptie to see if there was any oil in there. A bit of oil showed on the ziptie, but i am not sure how much is in the transmission. The manual says that the bike takes 0.8 litres for an oil change without a new filter so I am guessing that there is maybe 0.3 Litre or less in the bike. Can these bikes safely run with so little oil?

Before anyone asks, I have been riding motorcycles for 50 years. I know how to check the oil, and I know that new clean oil can be difficult to see on a dipstick. I also know that I need to check the oil with the dipstick resting on the top of the threads. I was so confused by the lack of oil that the first thing I did was read through the manual to be sure I was doing it properly.

My first thought was to add oil and go for a ride, but instead I rolled the bike back into the garage and will call the dealership when they open on Tuesday morning. They need pick up the bike and see how little oil is in it.

I paid for a PDI and nobody at the dealership bothered checking the oil. The dipstick was so tight i had to use a pair of pliers to open it. I also have no idea how much damage has been done to the engine. I bought this bike to keep for a very long time. I currently have four bikes (2018 Honda Gold Wing, 2013 Yamaha Super Tenere, 2010 Honda Sh150i, and the CT). I won't be riding the CT very often, so any engine damage may not show up for a long time.

I won't yell and stamp my feet, but I am not sure how to approach my discussion with the dealer. Should I ask for a new bike? He told me Friday that they only got two bikes (both sold) and are not expecting any more until the next shipment arrives in Canada; he does not know when that will be. Additional warranty is a start, but any damage is unlikely to show up within the extended limited warranty time frame. Or should I just tell them to take the bike back? I don't know if I really want to work with these guys any more. Or should I escalate this to Honda Canada? This seems extreme since the issue is with the dealership not the bike.

Any thoughts you have would be appreciated. As an aside, be sure to check the oil level on your new CT!

Phil

 

[oldskool]

Document every conversation with the dealer. Maybe they will do what's right...? Stay cool, I would want the oil drained and measured in my presence and go from there. How much oil is in there, any excess debris, chunks...? Maybe you could get the dealer to extend the engine warranty for a number of miles that you deem appropriate if there is no sign of damage. If damaged you want a new engine. How much was the dealer "setup". Mine was $650, tires way low, chain bowstring tight, throttle so sloppy it was spastic trying to ride at lower speeds, at least it had oil in it! If they are going to charge obscene rates for their "skilled check and setup" they at least need to do their job

 

[SneakyDingo]

so I am guessing that there is maybe 0.3 Litre or less in the bike. Can these bikes safely run with so little oil?
...

Any thoughts you have would be appreciated. As an aside, be sure to check the oil level on your new CT!

I'm going to explicitly verify the procedure: did you check the oil while this was on the center stand, on level ground, front wheel on the ground? Since the dipstick sits on the right side of the bike, that's the first procedural check that I would make given what you say. It's happened before that people checked the oil while it was on the sidestand. Everything else you did checks out as the right way to do it.

RE: 0.3L of oil in the bike or less, I have heard... monstrous abuses of this bike in terms of oil. Can the bike safely run with so little oil? Sure, I think they can, but I wouldn't want to rely on it. Anything can run for a short period of time without oil... then it doesn't, and it's a big problem.

 

[SneakyDingo]

Document every conversation with the dealer. Maybe they will do what's right...? Stay cool, I would want the oil drained and measured in my presence and go from there. How much oil is in there, any excess debris, chunks...? Maybe you could get the dealer to extend the engine warranty for a number of miles that you deem appropriate if there is no sign of damage. If damaged you want a new engine. How much was the dealer "setup". Mine was $650, tires way low, chain bowstring tight, throttle so sloppy it was spastic trying to ride at lower speeds. If they are going to charge obscene rates for their "skilled check and setup" they at least need to do their job

I also agree with this. If I was unsure of how much oil is in the bike... I'd do an oil change. Video document the entire thing. Then bring in the 0.3L of oil into the dealership and ask what gives. Or have them do it, but that seems high effort unless you're 100% sure they f**ked up.

RE: Tires, chain and throttle, those do have a spec that they should adhere to before the bike leaves the dealership, and it's part of my standard check procedure to say, "How do I adjust X" with the guy selling me the bike. That being said, for the throttle the "within spec" limits is extremely sloppy and almost everyone getting their bikes from the dealer is leaving with an in spec but sloppy throttle.

 

[backfill]

Thanks for the responses. Good advice all around.

To confirm, I checked the oil with the bike on the centrestand on level ground with the front wheel on the ground. First in my garage and then in the sunshine to be absolutely sure that there was no oil on the dipstick. I am kicking myself for running the bike for about five minutes and then checking the oil as per the manual. This is added wear with so little oil.

I will let the dealer drain the oil from the bike but I will be there when they do it. That way I can see if there is any metal in the oil. It is best that the dealer change the oil. I don't want them to think I am screwing them over, or that this is a scam to get a longer warranty. If there is metal, I will want a new motor and transmission.

I will go over the rest of the bike to make sure everything is in spec. I won't adjust anything at this time, but will document any issues.

As an aside, the rear brake works great but the front feels mushy. Is this typical or should I ask them to bleed the front brake?

 

[m in sc]

take it to the dealership, make them check it in front of you.

this is why, exactly why, i will, and have, gotten a lot of past bikes in the crates.

 

[dmonkey]

Have them check the front brake too, if the bike was low on oil it may also be low on brake fluid. You can eyeball that yourself without pulling the reservoir cap. A low brake fluid level could introduce air into the system that would need to be bled out.
New brake pads and rotors take some time to wear in, so the brake feel on a new bike isn't what it will feel like after 100-300 miles or so, but it still shouldn't be mushy.

 

[TrailSnot]

I emailed my dealer today as I don't believe the oil was properly filled/checked. I drained and replaced it yesterday and before doing so I checked the stick and it wasn't registering when checking "on top of the threads."
I have the old stuff sitting in an empty Rotella container and it isn't close to being (nearly) a quarts worth of oil. I'm guessing the bike was about 10oz short.
Overall more than you're estimating yours has in it, but definitely concerning.
It'll be my word against theirs seeing as I already dumped it. But I'll see what they have to say, whatever they say I want in writing.

 

[m in sc]

to be honest, it's probably fine. Im not sure how far you are going to get after draining the oil already. if it wasnt ticking, you had enough oil, especially IF you werent beating on it. as long as the pickup was covered w oil, its ok.

 

[hondatom]

Well your post got me off my butt and out to the garage to check the oil in my 23’ Trail. Mine is filled appropriately.

You might as well use the oil issue in a negotiation towards some kind of warranty or maybe some free oil changes from the dealership. If you paid any kind of assembly fee then it’s reasonable to ask for a partial refund since the dealership didn’t do their job. A pre-delivery inspection should have been completed and there’s barely anything to check on these bikes (oil/gas/battery).

Good luck.

 

[Backwoods]

If the dealership was responsible for me riding my new bike 24 miles with no oil showing on the dipstick, I would absolutely want my money back, nothing else would satisfy me. “ warning, keep oil level between marks at all times, low oil level can cause engine damage”. I’ll be checking my oil level when I pick up my 23.

 

[m in sc]

i agree, but there's no way to prove it at this point, which sucks.

 

[TRF90]

If you decide to keep the bike, I like the idea of expecting them to refund the pre-delivery set up charges. It's only fair. I also like the idea of making them drain the oil so it's abundantly clear to them that they screwed up. If the bike seemed to run OK on the way home and when you warmed it up to check the oil again, I'm thinking that the extra wear was probably negligible. But if they won't do something on the pre-delivery charges, I might press them and the higher ups to refund my money.

 

[Cpd419]

Pisses me off that all these stealerships charge you ridiculous amounts to set up a bike and some da doesn’t check the oil. But it’s a Honda and if it had a third of a quart it’s probably ok.

 

[George]

I think the minimum fair deal, the dealer should refund your PDI fee.

 

[Tex68w]

Yea it's a bummer for sure but in the end I agree with the others, I think it'll be ok. That said, that doesn't excuse the lack of attention to detail in the initial setup that you paid handsomely for.

 

[Backwoods]

When I worked as a Polaris mechanic the new bikes came with flagged oil caps and a container of oil. You needed to unscrew the cap to get the flag off, so then in goes the oil. If there is a container of oil left over when the setup is finished, the mechanic knows it needs to go in the engine. This was every bike. I don’t know the Honda procedure for preventing a new bike from leaving the shop or even getting started without the oil level being correct, but this was what Polaris had in place 30 years ago.

 

[AZ7000']

No secret I dislike GO-AZ motorcycles here in flagstaff. Gave the kids his new klx140l I bought there with zero percent financing. The worst assembly I have ever seen, completely missing the skid plate, couldn’t align the seat so left off hardware that was needed, ran the wrong bolt into the subframe, battery connections….

They told that tech was terrible and they had to let him go, is that supposed to make me feel better??

Glad I paid a ridiculous mark up for it

 

[m in sc]

the problem here is they don't pay the techs shit, and get what they pay for. I was offered to run the shop there when the local dealer changed hands, they came to me unsolicited actually. when they told me what the pay rate was i told them id consider it if i was retired, (far from it) but they weren't going to get anybody worth a shit at that rate. and, they haven't. There needs to be a better balance, but people don't value service, or are willing to pay for it for the MOST part, until it goes wrong for them. Then they bitch. Not saying that's the case here, but in the current situation we are as being cheap and trying to pay the least for things.... consider what you're losing by being a bargain basement shopper. PDI's though should always be done right, especially on a bike. But its entry level tech guys jobs usually because it doesn't pay shit hour wise. 'lube dude' work we used to call it. When i was a service manager, we would -make- the techs rotate every pdi thru the shop. this was 25 year ago at a honda (car) dealership, but it kept the pdis done right. Most service managers are afraid to piss off the primadona techs they have. and every shop has 1 or 2.

 

[BikerBitch]

Typically the newer techs do the "e-z" set-ups. Same scenario at every dealership, we have sent out an outboard or 2 with no oil. Results varied!