What is different in the 2023 motor?

[Tim]

I understand that Honda changed something in the 23 motors ..
So my new to me 21 is outdated?

 

[dmonkey]

See https://hondatrail125.com/index.php?threads/change-of-engine-design-good-or.2434/

 

[m in sc]

outdated in what way?

 

[Tim]

outdated in what way?

Older technology..lol

 

[NMCoyote]

pretty much anything you buy these days is outdated pretty damn quickly!

 

[Kev250R]

I ride a '21 and don't mind if it's using 'outdated' engine technology. But then again, I've never been the guy who needs to have the latest and greatest. I use an iPhone 6s and regularly drive two cars I own from the '60's LOL!

 

[m in sc]

its not an I-Phone. I mean, if you want constant update-ability, buy a zero. Most of my bikes are over 50 yrs old. they aren't really obsolete as they all still work exactly as they should.

 

[dmonkey]

I'm waiting to upgrade until Honda come out with a cutting edge new CT125 that has an integrated clock . The Honda Canada promo video guy already fooled me saying the 2023 had a clock when it didn't.

 

[Farmer Mike]

Honda PowerSport contacted me (I'm sure it's not just me)... and ask me what I thought of my new bike... I told them right up front, that I didn't know what the hell they were doing, but whoever said it was OK to remove the high/low range needed to be fired!

 

[dmonkey]

Herb Uhl, who created the first Honda Trail bikes, shares that opinion with you. Timestamp 11:56

Personally, I've found the stock gearing to be a decent enough balance for a wide range of street riding and trail riding without being great at either. If I were using the CT strictly off-road and lower speed I'd likely regear it similar to the New Zealand "Farm kit" version (13T front, 51T rear). Have done plenty of street riding and mountain trails without that, but the CT125 absolutely struggles with the steep inclines. Many folks just go down a tooth to a 13T on the front sprocket and leave it at that.

 

[Farmer Mike]

Well, back in the day, the Trail 90 I rode had the dual range gearbox, and it would climb long steep loose hills in 3rd gear with two of us on it... maybe 150 lbs. total weight. I have a whopping 18 miles on my new bike... can't get a license until mid January (have to take some class now)... even though I "had" a motorcycle license in this state many years ago... somehow it's been "removed" from my license, and I have to play this game to get it back. But from the little I've ridden it around it seems just a tad weak in 4th gear for sure. If anything I'll add two or 3 teeth to the rear sprocket and call it a day, but not doing anything to it for a bit, until I have a chance to put a few hundred miles on it.

 

[m in sc]

this motor never had a hi-lo range. remember, this model was a protype bought out from the super-cub platform. to that point, I could say the same thing about the fuel injection, whoever thought it was a good idea to remove the carburetor.. what were they thinking.. lol. I got that same survey and lit them up on the crap ecm tune.

 

[Kev250R]

I'm waiting to upgrade until Honda come out with a cutting edge new CT125 that has an integrated clock . The Honda Canada promo video guy already fooled me saying the 2023 had a clock when it didn't.

Eh, be glad Honda didn't include one. Both of my KTM's have built-in clocks and both never keep the correct time (not even close actually). To the point where one of my friends suggested that maybe the clock just resets it's self back to whatever time it is in Austria LOL!

Back 25ish years ago though my friends and I routinely strapped cheap wristwatches to the bars of our Dirtbikes and ATV's. This was before any of us could afford a GPS and none of our rides had any sort of gauge cluster so we measured distances in minutes. "That abandoned car is 18 minutes away." Or "I have 40 minutes of fuel left." Worked well for us, though we did used to get comments about 'being the guys who always have to know what time it is'.

 

[dmonkey]

Oh I'm sure I'd be annoyed by maintaining the time if it did have a clock, I was just kidding of course. It's actually a nice feature to not be distracted by the time when you don't care to be! When I have intentions of being somewhere at a given time more than a simple ride away I usually have my wristwatch on the handlebar or am using navigation with a clock anyway.


Honda ditched carbs on the Cub bikes for emissions reasons, or at least claims. Years after introducing the Wave 125i with PGM-FI, Honda made commitments to start switching new motorcycle manufacturing over to their PGM-FI. One of those commitments was for their manufacturing in Thailand, which is where all our CT125s are made.

Honda Global | July 22, 2008 Honda sets PGM-FI, a green energy saving technology, as the Thai motorcycle standard via the launch of 2 new models

Honda Global | Honda sets PGM-FI, a green energy saving technology, as the Thai motorcycle standard via the launch of 2 new models

global.honda

That still doesn't excuse the weak tune on the CT though.

 

[m in sc]

XR150L and the DR650.

carbs. New bikes. Just sayin.

 

[dmonkey]

XR150L and the DR650.

carbs. New bikes. Just sayin.

Now look at the limited markets that those bikes are able to be sold in. The Cub/Wave bikes are sold in many more markets and conform to stricter emissions requirements.

 

[m in sc]

The xr is sold all over asia as well as North America... Europe is the only real issue and i don't live there. same with the DR. Australia issues are lack of 2 channel abs, not emissions... which is what killed the trail over there. the limited market is... Europe for the most part. They haven't been dropped so apparently still selling just fine.

 

[dmonkey]

The XR150L is only still sold in some Asian countries, far fewer than the Cub/Wave bikes are. It's a Honda that's not even sold new in Japan. Honda's decision to update other models to their PGM-FI for emissions makes business sense of being able to sell a motorcycle in the most markets possible. They weren't going to let the Honda Cub be discontinued in Japan, where emissions requirements are based on those in Europe. Even in the USA import motorcycles are often built to international standards which include Euro emissions, dictating the designs sold in the USA. The new Euro5 motor in the Honda 125 minimotos is prime example of that, while the XR is an example of older motorcycle designs finding a new home in countries with less strict emissions. A bummer there is that even when there's a decent Euro compliant motorcycle sold in the USA, noise emissions are different and measured differently in the USA so higher performance motorcycles often get detuned for the USA due to noise emissions rather than air pollutant emissions. The new Transalp is an example of that.

 

[Farmer Mike]

this motor never had a hi-lo range. remember, this model was a protype bought out from the super-cub platform. to that point, I could say the same thing about the fuel injection, whoever thought it was a good idea to remove the carburetor.. what were they thinking.. lol. I got that same survey and lit them up on the crap ecm tune.

I did notice today that on the 2023's... they decreased the driven sprocket to 38 teeth... no idea what tweaks in the drivetrain led Honda to believe the Trail could benefit from an even higher final drive ratio, but I will look into that at some future date. Hopefully the red tape will come to an end soon, and I'll be legal, and I can go see what the little green machine will do (after some additional gentle break in rides)... installed a Tach today, so I can monitor how short the top end is (if at all) in 4th gear. Either way, from what I've been able to glean from my short "illegal" rides around the neighborhood... it's going to meet my needs just fine.

 

[dmonkey]

I'm pretty sure all the Honda mini motos got new sprocket ratios with the updated Euro 5 motor, even the Super Cub which kept its 4-speed like the Trail.